Pastelland Forum

Theory title: Is the subnet a kind of "Matrix" ?

Hi there,

Do you think the subnet could be a virtual and psychic world like the Matrix ?

They are several details that make me think that.

"clins d'oeil" (allusions) to Matrix :
-lot of green text in black screen
-The "there is no spoon" in the intro of sub_3 (quotation of Matrix)
-The whole ambiance, post-apocalyptic, struggle with a super-AI, etc

other clue :
-in sub_7 we fond Buddha status with stranges things wrote on (about the fact that all is in the mind... like the imaterialists doctrines of Yogacara mahayana buddhism, for the connoisseurs)

things that can't (or very hardly) be explicate without this theory :
-the psychic power of Murtaugh
-the end of Sub_1 : we realize that all around us are like a computer's screen
-the beginning of Sub_2 : we have a note found in the basement... whereas this last was not real (but if nor the basement nor the lighthouse are real, thing can perfectly be as real in each other)
-in sub_2, we take a card in a image, same reflection than previously
-the technological (the subamchines themselves) and physical (about gravitation, atmosphere, etc) impossibility


What do you think of that ?

As to your signature: Your English is actually very good.

As for the topic at hand: You'll find on submachine.wikia.com (the Submachine Wiki) that it's been said about Matrix being a "cultural influence" upon the Submachine series, as well as the show Lost and the movie Tron.

The problem here is Mateusz (the creator) has confirmed the Submachine Network (or SubNet) is real, as much as we'd love to theorize otherwise

Welcome to the Forum by the way!

if you take the blue pill, you're still in submachine.
Welcome, Le Mérovingien.

In Sub 6 intro I still can see some "Cube" influence.

cube is present since sub3.

MateuszSkutnik wrote:cube is present since sub3.

Well yeah, but the most recognisable element in the series is in Sub6, in the scene of the cube entering the big grid... I love that film.
(btw: here's the real cube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aGDCE6Nrz0)

Thanks all !

Hum, so the things are a bit more complicate.

Have you noticed that the player did a time travel between Sub_4 and sub_5 ?

New theory (not finished) : The wisdom gems are kinds of anomaly in reality. The power of Mur is similar of the gem energy. The creation of the first submachine have been allowed by the study of wisdom gem.
The Submachine create it's own reality. Places linked by the subnet became progressively hermetic to the rest of the world, and our world probably rebuild itself automatically to erase the incoherence caused by the disparition of some part of it (that's why we have no trace of Henri O'Tool and his work).

The subnet world became autonomous, maybe "less real". The reality obey to other law in it, especially for the plants and the other living beings. That's why the plants created energy (light) instead of consume (no atmosphere, no humus, etc).




In sub_4, the lab is not totally out of our world (they are again a bit of blue sky), and the brick of the lighthouse are still young. In sub_5, they have at least 50 more years (even a few centuries).

Welcome to the forums, we hope you like your stay. XD

Hum, so the things are a bit more complicate.

You've no idea. Take a look at the theories on the wiki. 0_o Or the fun way to read a small selection of them is in SNEE.

Have you noticed that the player did a time travel between Sub_4 and sub_5 ?

The lab location IS different between sub_4 and sub_5, and Mateusz has said we might either be in a different location in the lab, or else might actually be at the lab as it exists in a different time, so perhaps we did make a time jump, but it is not yet confirmed, merely an "alive" theory. If you go to the wiki and search for "forum posts" you'll find a compendium of quotes from Mateusz we use as a kind of "word of God" to determine things which we don't know for sure about the subnet from within the games. Hence we know the submachine's are not simulations but are real.

New theory (not finished) : The wisdom gems are kinds of anomaly in reality. The power of Mur is similar of the gem energy. The creation of the first submachine have been allowed by the study of wisdom gem.
The Submachine create it's own reality. Places linked by the subnet became progressively hermetic to the rest of the world, and our world probably rebuild itself automatically to erase the incoherence caused by the disparition of some part of it (that's why we have no trace of Henri O'Tool and his work).

The subnet world became autonomous, maybe "less real". The reality obey to other law in it, especially for the plants and the other living beings. That's why the plants created energy (light) instead of consume (no atmosphere, no humus, etc).

Keep working on it. By the idea that the plants create energy instead of consuming it, do you mean that there is a kind of reversal in causation with the plants in the submachine? Almost as if they were real world plants moved into the subnet and reversed so that the light they had been collecting in the real world is being projected back out? If so, that is a very original idea. We've usually gone at that problem from the perspective of asking what energy are they consuming that both keeps them alive and allows them to biolumines? The idea that our world would rebuild itself over incoherenceies in the subnet is also an original idea I'd like to hear more of.

In sub_4, the lab is not totally out of our world (they are again a bit of blue sky), and the brick of the lighthouse are still young. In sub_5, they have at least 50 more years (even a few centuries).

Sub_5 doesn't take place at the lighthouse dugouts. It's a different location called the Root. Plus, the lighthouse dugouts are known to be ancient, even if they might look "young."

@RuloCore: that is HILARIOUS! Crazy how the cube shape and the wisdom gems harmonize with the submachine series. We can only pray the dread cone doesn't appear in the subnet!!!!

Le Mérovingien wrote: In sub_4, the lab is not totally out of our world (they are again a bit of blue sky), and the brick of the lighthouse are still young. In sub_5, they have at least 50 more years (even a few centuries).

Well, didn't we say that the Sub4 rooftop was an illusion or a background like in SNEE's Ancient Ruins?

And if between 4 and 5 have passed more than 50 years, Mur hiring us for the lab in Sub4 makes no sense.

@Redafro: DREADED CONE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjT6nvB2IrE

Have you noticed that the player did a time travel between Sub_4 and sub_5 ?

To save you time, here's a post from Mateusz:

the first submachine was built in early 1900.
that much we know.

ancient location was built later using a time machine.

So there's use of a time machine. However, that's just a small piece of information compared to the real answer RedAfro provided. I added in the "time machine" part in case you want to go look at the Wiki some more *nudge nudge*

The wisdom gems are kinds of anomaly in reality.

Very nice word there: reality. Reminds me of this post by Mateusz:

reality is made of 7 different layers. subnet is a part of that reality.

Very interesting. If you don't mind, the thought I propose here is that Wisdom Gems are thus "part of that reality," along with the SubNet and however many parts (I assume 5 - 6 if my Suggestion is incorrect) make up Reality.

And that thought alone about "anomaly in reality," as far as I remember, has been theorized before, which is why it's crucial that you visit the Submachine Wiki to help broaden your knowledge of what's already been Theorized (just so you don't make the mistake of coming up with a Theory that's already been made.)

The power of Mur is similar of the gem energy.

This, however, is partially correct. Yes, there are Karma Gems, and Mur has a Karma Arm, thus Karma power and Karma energy, all of which should be the same source. However, there are "Wisdom Gems" as well (as you've pointed out later on in this Theory.) So not all Gem energy could then be said to be related to Mur's powers.

The creation of the first submachine have been allowed by the study of wisdom gem.

Where did you find that? Or is that part of your Theory? Because, being that we (The Player) have knowledge of Wisdom Gems, as I'm sure you're aware. Evidence:

You seem to be the best man for this job since your training involved dealing with wisdom crystals.

So I see a nice plotpoint forming there - Something along the lines of us time traveling to build the first Submachine, as strange and assuming as it sounds.

The Submachine create it's own reality.

Now, as much as I'd like to believe that, that interferes with Mateusz's solid point of "reality is made of 7 different layers." Or maybe I'm wrong.

Places linked by the subnet became progressively hermetic to the rest of the world, and our world probably rebuild itself automatically to erase the incoherence caused by the disparition of some part of it (that's why we have no trace of Henri O'Tool and his work).

Interesting. Not to bear over you, but how do these places eventually become "linked to the SubNet?" It's a very nice thought. If I'm correct, you're saying that we have no knowledge of Henry O'Toole because all knowledge of him is secluded to the SubNet, being only known in places that eventually became linked to the SubNet? It's a very interesting thought. After all, we know this:

I finally understood how they could mimic the structure of the subnet within a garden...

They didn't have to mimic. They were already living inside the subnet.

I really hope I didn't go too far off in a tangent, but the provided Note would be answered by this thought. The question is "How were they already living in the SubNet?" Answer: Where they lived was linked to the SubNet.

The subnet world became autonomous, maybe "less real". The reality obey to other law in it, especially for the plants and the other living beings. That's why the plants created energy (light) instead of consume (no atmosphere, no humus, etc).

As Red said, these plants create a reverse-photosynthesis due to not being in "reality" anymore? Yet SubNet is part of reality...Hmm...Confusing, haha. However, this does fit in with the unique Physics we see in the SubNet.

We've usually gone at that problem from the perspective of asking what energy are they consuming that both keeps them alive and allows them to biolumines?

I thought it was simply answered by:

Deep sea or deep cave forms of life have one thing in common: fluorescence. It appears in environments lacking the sunlight. Besides being a nice eyecandy that concept fits in perfectly within the submachine universe.

Being the Void seems to be in the part of The Core where we noticed this flourescence, and it lacks sunlight (tangent: As does most of the SubNet, except seemingly Layer 2), I thought that's where the flourescence came from. Even though it suspiciously seems the plants run on Wisdom Energy (as per my Theory) or Karma Energy (even though it seems it's always green, especially the Portal at the end of Sub7 - Although the baby steps were blue), as Mero's Theory suggests (I hope you don't mind being called Mero, unless you'd prefer I'd use your whole name.)