Pastelland Forum

Yeahit must be happening in real time, until someone did exactly what the palyer is doing now, which is unlikely because how did the Defense Systems reactivate then? and why did it let someone else deactivate it again? unless they were plain idiotic Defense Systems XD

One point you guys may be missing is the amount of gear that was set up at the Sanctuary, including tables where people appeared to be drinking coffee or something just waiting. So what was happening there? Where they camped out there waiting for the Defsys to fall so they could finally bust the Sanctuary wall down and enter the Winter Palace via the gate? If they could just camp out there, in what way did the Defsys keep them out of the Temple? I thought it was the turrets, which would be a pretty strong deterrent to camping out and waiting for us to shut the Defsys down. Even if they could just camp out, it still seems that they would not have had time to break in and invade between us receiving Mur's "your adventure ends here" message and us teleporting to the sanctuary gate area. There also seem to be rear guard defenses set up in case anyone uses the portal we got there in: the two way blue barriers and the fact that the gate had to be reactivated, and those would have taken time to set up too.

So, to me, this is just another example of obvious time shifts that occur in the subnet. For whatever reason, that last portal in Sub6 teleported us forward in time far enough for Mur's men to have the time they need to invade without us present.

I thought of that too, but it mustnt' have teleported us in time very far, because then Liz wouldn't have left those notes.
On the other hand, how the hell did she knew we were going there to leave us those notes? Does she have superpowers or something? o_O

On the other hand, how the hell did she knew we were going there to leave us those notes? Does she have superpowers or something?

In some aspects, I believe Ant is right in that Liz left notes for potential Explorers that enter The Core, but the ones at the end of Sub7 and beginning of Sub8 don't confirm that Theory, meaning that Liz wrote those notes recently.

Edit: As I said, it's possible she monitored the DefSys, even if there's nothing proving it. She seems to have enough technology to know what's happening around the SubNet.

One point you guys may be missing is the amount of gear that was set up at the Sanctuary, including tables where people appeared to be drinking coffee or something just waiting. So what was happening there? Where they camped out there waiting for the Defsys to fall so they could finally bust the Sanctuary wall down and enter the Winter Palace via the gate? If they could just camp out there, in what way did the Defsys keep them out of the Temple? I thought it was the turrets, which would be a pretty strong deterrent to camping out and waiting for us to shut the Defsys down. Even if they could just camp out, it still seems that they would not have had time to break in and invade between us receiving Mur's "your adventure ends here" message and us teleporting to the sanctuary gate area. There also seem to be rear guard defenses set up in case anyone uses the portal we got there in: the two way blue barriers and the fact that the gate had to be reactivated, and those would have taken time to set up too.

So, to me, this is just another example of obvious time shifts that occur in the subnet. For whatever reason, that last portal in Sub6 teleported us forward in time far enough for Mur's men to have the time they need to invade without us present.

(Italicized) Like I said before, it's possible there are time shifts:

unless the space-time factor of the SubNet is really messed up and Mur and Liz are years ahead of us.

However, those people camped out in the Sanctuary were probably anticipating, as you said, the DefSys to fall - It must be that the DefSys made a barrier between that Portal we entered from and the "Dimensional Doorway" (i.e. the battering ram.) Once it fell, they put their plan into action immediately - They may not be that far ahead of us, since it's all happening in real-time.

But I can believe there is a time shift, I just can't right now until we see further evidence.

Rooster5man wrote:

On the other hand, how the hell did she knew we were going there to leave us those notes? Does she have superpowers or something?

In some aspects, I believe Ant is right in that Liz left notes for potential Explorers that enter The Core, but the ones at the end of Sub7 and beginning of Sub8 don't confirm that Theory, meaning that Liz wrote those notes recently.

Edit: As I said, it's possible she monitored the DefSys, even if there's nothing proving it. She seems to have enough technology to know what's happening around the SubNet.

Why does that necessarily change their point? Why wouldn't she want to spread her view for those that come later? Especially those who might attack her.

EDIT:

However, those people camped out in the Sanctuary were probably anticipating, as you said, the DefSys to fall - It must be that the DefSys made a barrier between that Portal we entered from and the "Dimensional Doorway" (i.e. the battering ram.) Once it fell, they put their plan into action immediately - They may not be that far ahead of us, since it's all happening in real-time.

But I can believe there is a time shift, I just can't right now until we see further evidence.

They probably did camp out there, remember how Murtaugh said:

mur@lab: hello?
mur@lab: I can't believe it.
mur@lab: you managed to disable the defense systems of the subnet.
mur@lab: now we can travel freely throughout the net. We can finally invade the core of the submachine.
mur@lab: unfortunately for you, your adventure ends here.

mur@lab: good bye.

This indicates that they were prepared.

Truth be told the Defense System was like the Great Wall of China, similar in function.

The intro to Sub 6. When we see the Second Mover moving towards the Wall. But then when we don't put in the right Pass Code we get sent to the Cliff. That Cliff itself is a solid original structure.
But then the top portion was added, we can see that when we enter the Elevator. Like how the Great Wall was put on top of the surface of the Earth. But then near the end when we disable the turret which is on the top of the wall which we know is 9 cubes long.

So the part of the Sanctuary that has that Wall they broke through, it was less than 1 Cube long. Why would they leave a weaker point in the Wall if they wanted to defend the Core?plus if the entrances to the Winter Palaces, then the Wall, and the Portal Machine on the other side, why wasn't there any form of a Door? The Portal Machine used the Connection Pod which indicate to me that sometime a SubBot in the Sanctuary need to go to the Defenses System, maybe to do maintenance or part of its defenses program, now why would that Wall be there with no form of a door?

I think that the Sanctuary is some form or a Bridge, or a security Check point, like they have in Army Base. Remember the Arch Doorway we used to get to the Winter Palaces inside the Core, when we walk through it the transactional scenes makes me think of moving from one Layer to another.

But there is still no explanation about that Wall. Maybe its like a wall at a Castle? There could be some form of as perch on the top of the Wall where someone would keep a lookout.

Why does that necessarily change their point? Why wouldn't she want to spread her view for those that come later? Especially those who might attack her.

I have no argument with that, I'm pointing out that the more recent notes, however, couldn't have been one of the "stationary" notes (stationary = explanation of Karma Portals, for example) she left for newcomers.

This indicates that they were prepared.

Indeed, it's all about timing though - How much time passed between us getting to the Sanctuary and shutting down the DefSys? That's the question at hand.

it was less than 1 Cube long. Why would they leave a weaker point in the Wall if they wanted to defend the Core?plus if the entrances to the Winter Palaces, then the Wall, and the Portal Machine on the other side, why wasn't there any form of a Door? The Portal Machine used the Connection Pod which indicate to me that sometime a SubBot in the Sanctuary need to go to the Defenses System, maybe to do maintenance or part of its defenses program, now why would that Wall be there with no form of a door?

I think that the Sanctuary is some form or a Bridge, or a security Check point, like they have in Army Base. Remember the Arch Doorway we used to get to the Winter Palaces inside the Core, when we walk through it the transactional scenes makes me think of moving from one Layer to another.

The Subbot and "checkpoint" parts are good suggestions, but we don't know how "weak" the Wall was - It might have been there for a long time and weakened over time, and was kept there to add to the peacefulness of the Sanctuary, not expecting Mur and his people would destroy it, especially since the DefSys were up.

but we don't know how "weak" the Wall was - It might have been there for a long time and weakened over time,

Yeah true but we still don't know how much time has pass. There might be that the Time itself is not at a steady pace, Materusz left a clue to that in SNEE; Coordinates 987, the Broken Clock Room.

The leftmost room is dominated by a Grandfathers Clock. It has been torn apart, leaving only an empty shell. All the pieces are on the floor; weights, pendulum, clock itself, six cogs and the two hands. The clock itself is still making a ruckus!

That means Time is not kept at a steady pace.

The dirt that has flowed through the door and the bricked up window [are believed to] represent the fact that the room is uninhabited, which relates to the theory in the room about how places get into the Subnet. The broken grandfather clock [is believed to] represent both the Gieger counter and the cat from the Schrödinger's Cat experiment, except instead of radioactive material the Subnet itself sets off the clock. So when the clock entered the Subnet it self-destructed. This relates to the many-world interpretation of the Schrödinger's Cat experiment because their are two overlapping realities of the same room, one over each other. We see the broken clock because we are in the Subnet but hear the clock because there are overlapping realities.

There are many more variables than those have seen.

Age is still a question to be interpreted. But look at how our time on Earth is measure: by the position of the Sun compared to where its light strikes the Earth. So far there is only Layer 2 that has something that even resembles a Sun, or a form of planetary baseline for measurement.

But so far we still don't know where each Room in all the SubNet related to the next Room due to the fact we still haven't seen a Map of the Submachine World. Until we have a baseline as to where each room relates to each other we can't denied the possibility that Time in each room are not all simultaneously.

Yeah true but we still don't know how much time has pass. There might be that the Time itself is not at a steady pace, Materusz left a clue to that in SNEE; Coordinates 987, the Broken Clock Room.

It does seem time doesn't "move at a steady pace," I'm well aware, but the Sanctuary might have been there as long as the Winter Palace has been there, or even longer, so that's a considerable amount of time, adding more evidence to the possibility that the wall weakened over time, thus making it easier for the battering ram to break through the wall.

The leftmost room is dominated by a Grandfathers Clock. It has been torn apart, leaving only an empty shell. All the pieces are on the floor; weights, pendulum, clock itself, six cogs and the two hands. The clock itself is still making a ruckus!

That means Time is not kept at a steady pace.

How does that conclude to that at all? If you're referring to how the clock's still "making a ruckus," even though the clock's torn apart, then that kind of logic can lead me to say that the ambiance of any Location defines what's in it. It's an ambiance, I don't believe ambiances are vital to the plot, they're game mechanics.

The other part you quoted is from the Wiki, isn't it? That's all speculation, not fact, speculation upon speculation makes matters worse.

Age is still a question to be interpreted. But look at how our time on Earth is measure: by the position of the Sun compared to where its light strikes the Earth. So far there is only Layer 2 that has something that even resembles a Sun, or a form of planetary baseline for measurement.

But so far we still don't know where each Room in all the SubNet related to the next Room due to the fact we still haven't seen a Map of the Submachine World. Until we have a baseline as to where each room relates to each other we can't denied the possibility that Time in each room are not all simultaneously.

We know for a fact that the Lighthouse and Root locations in SNEE are right next to each other, so the Root Locations must all work in the same timeline, being all in the Root, and same goes for the Lighthouse. Now I don't know if there's a Narnia-type deal, where time is valued differently in each area of the SubNet (i.e. the 742 years in Layer 7), so, of course, I can't tell you how time works, but if I could guess, there's two possibilities:

1) With the Theory that each Location sets its own Physics, that could lead to one saying it sets its own timeline as well.

2) Everywhere in the SubNet runs in the same timeline, which is why we're able to keep up with Mur in real-time.

But this is a tangent off the question at hand: How long has the notes from the end of Sub7 and beginning of Sub8 been waiting for us? How far ahead in the timeline is Mur and Liz from us, or are they keeping with us in real-time, as we seem to be doing?

We know for a fact that the Lighthouse and Root locations in SNEE are right next to each other, so the Root Locations must all work in the same timeline, being all in the Root, and same goes for the Lighthouse.

Doesn't count. Lets take that and applies it in real life, shall we? Put your self in a Room, all Windows are black out, there no Clock, no TV (Can't see anything on the news), and no way of telling how much Time has pass. Now lets say that this Room is in a Basement of a Building, and the rest of the Building has the same variables applies to the rest of the Building. Now lets say that Building has a neighbor Building built of exact same parameters, and both are occupied with People. Still can't tell what Time it is due to the fact that we can't measure some form of Natural Changes in order to know how much Time has pass.

Now the same thing applies to the Root, can't tell how much time has pass at all due to the fact there is no Clock.