Pastelland Forum

Rooster5man wrote:

But then how did she get to layer 5 if she left it there?

But we have no evidence to support the idea that she knew that we are following her. Why would she?

Red already answered the first quote, but Liz must know we were following her - She's been leaving Notes for us left and right. The Theory that "there is no Liz and someone's leaving the notes for us and putting them in her name" seems to be very Doubtful, if not Debunked (assuming that's your thesis) - Liz knows we're going after Mur with her, just look at the notes throughout Sub7 and the beginning of Sub8 when she basically said, "Mur's coming, run."

She knew we wouldn't have any way of knowing how to navigate the Layers if we didn't even know about Karma Portals until she explained in Sub7, so she most likely made the Navigator for us, being she had the only one. It's not that farfetched a conclusion - She knows we're following her and Mur, and she's helping us out.

I would like to point out the possibility that she has been leaving notes mostly for the purpose of recruiting people that stumble across her tracks. Of course she might have the ability to know of our presence, but how? I mean the attempts to map the outer rim failed: how could that be if they could know all the locations and who was in there?

I would like to point out the possibility that she has been leaving notes mostly for the purpose of recruiting people that stumble across her tracks. Of course she might have the ability to know of our presence, but how? I mean the attempts to map the outer rim failed: how could that be if they could know all the locations and who was in there?

For one thing, there's the Infestation Map and the GeoTag system. Even if she didn't know that we specifically were following her, she knew there was someone behind her or else she wouldn't have bothered to say "You have to use the Portal, I took the last escape pod," or even left the "We should go now" note.

And she must've known we shut down the DefSys, that's a big indicator that there's someone out there - She was minding her own business until Mur stumbled along, and someone had to shut down the DefSys for him to come through.

Rooster5man wrote:

I would like to point out the possibility that she has been leaving notes mostly for the purpose of recruiting people that stumble across her tracks. Of course she might have the ability to know of our presence, but how? I mean the attempts to map the outer rim failed: how could that be if they could know all the locations and who was in there?

For one thing, there's the Infestation Map and the GeoTag system. Even if she didn't know that we specifically were following her, she knew there was someone behind her or else she wouldn't have bothered to say "You have to use the Portal, I took the last escape pod," or even left the "We should go now" note.

And she must've known we shut down the DefSys, that's a big indicator that there's someone out there - She was minding her own business until Mur stumbled along, and someone had to shut down the DefSys for him to come through.

Are you actually claiming Elizabeth could conceivably have access to the DefSys, let alone that diagram? I will admit she seems to know what the DefSys is down but before that it was a hostile environment for humans and after that it was broken! Similarly, the geotag system, although poorly understood, seems to be more like a coordinate system than an actual human locating device.

I will still argue for her just writing the notes for any human, not necessarily for any particular one but it still is anti-Murtaugh propaganda in effect. Maybe she hoped some of them would regret what they did and attack him?

but before that it was a hostile environment for humans

Not necessarily. Just to humans without the codes to get in, or the ingenuity (resistance to amnesia/brain hacks) to use the conveniently placed time shift room.

seems to be more like a coordinate system than an actual human locating device.

Well yeah. But I see your point, we may not have a geotag on us. Then again, we don't know we don't.

I will still argue for her just writing the notes for any human, not necessarily for any particular one but it still is anti-Murtaugh propaganda in effect. Maybe she hoped some of them would regret what they did and attack him?

Well, I think the theory that she made the Navigator works either way. She does know she has allies, or suspects it enough to leave it behind for them.

Red already answered the first quote, but Liz must know we were following her - She's been leaving Notes for us left and right. The Theory that "there is no Liz and someone's leaving the notes for us and putting them in her name" seems to be very Doubtful, if not Debunked (assuming that's your thesis) - Liz knows we're going after Mur with her, just look at the notes throughout Sub7 and the beginning of Sub8 when she basically said, "Mur's coming, run."

She knew we wouldn't have any way of knowing how to navigate the Layers if we didn't even know about Karma Portals until she explained in Sub7, so she most likely made the Navigator for us, being she had the only one. It's not that farfetched a conclusion - She knows we're following her and Mur, and she's helping us out.

This never occurred to me. I wasn't thinking on the lines of the, "there is no Liz and someone's leaving the notes for us and putting them in her name," theory but more on what Anterionen said:

I would like to point out the possibility that she has been leaving notes mostly for the purpose of recruiting people that stumble across her tracks. Of course she might have the ability to know of our presence, but how? I mean the attempts to map the outer rim failed: how could that be if they could know all the locations and who was in there?

Well, I think the theory that she made the Navigator works either way. She does know she has allies, or suspects it enough to leave it behind for them.

That is what I wanted to hear.

This never occurred to me. I wasn't thinking on the lines of the, "there is no Liz and someone's leaving the notes for us and putting them in her name," theory but more on what Anterionen said

Oh, I see...I won't argue the point further simply because I've used the only arguments I can think of But Liz must know we exist, or that there's a Player, or else she wouldn't bother to explain Karma Portals or let us know what's going on. For example, just take the "Escape Pod" note - If she didn't know there was someone in the Core besides her and Mur, why would she bother saying anything? And she must know Mur had help getting into the Core and past the DefSys, thus that would be us and she knows we're on Mur's tail.

The Note maybe actully simlar to Ancient carving in Stone. You know the existancse of Hyroglifics inside the Pyramid in Egypt tell storys or some form of record keeping. Maybe that what the Notes are. Maybe Liz did leave them but they been there awhile say like...742 years ago but due to the different Reality and Physics of the SubNet cause them to be Preserve for a while. Like that Room in Sub 6 that change the Age of an object. What causes the room to do that might have something to do with the Note around the SubNet. Maybe not change the Aga but more on the function of preserving the Note.

There is evidents of Ancient culture inside the SubNet, they have been preseave. Like the Hyroglifics on that Secret Area in Sub 6 when you leave the room setting so that Cliff can be restord so its readable.

Plus the age of the Paper the Notes are might give a clue to how long its been there. Like in Sub 8 in Layer 7 where that Note that tell about some Women enter Bamboo Town. It looked a bit older than usual.

The Note maybe actully simlar to Ancient carving in Stone. You know the existancse of Hyroglifics inside the Pyramid in Egypt tell storys or some form of record keeping. Maybe that what the Notes are. Maybe Liz did leave them but they been there awhile say like...742 years ago but due to the different Reality and Physics of the SubNet cause them to be Preserve for a while. Like that Room in Sub 6 that change the Age of an object. What causes the room to do that might have something to do with the Note around the SubNet. Maybe not change the Aga but more on the function of preserving the Note.

That still doesn't explain how she could leave a note that seems fairly recent. Unless I'm mistaken, it's not possible in the slightest that she wrote the note 742 years ago (for example) in anticipation for Mur's return to warn Layer 5, if Mur couldn't even get into the Core without us helping him get past the DefSys...Everything's happening in real-time, unless the space-time factor of the SubNet is really messed up and Mur and Liz are years ahead of us.

Yes...but then again Mur did have more than one person he tried to deceive into lowering the Defenses Grid. Maybe Liz was expecting us, but not one of us in particular.

Yes...but then again Mur did have more than one person he tried to deceive into lowering the Defenses Grid. Maybe Liz was expecting us, but not one of us in particular.

You're avoiding the problem at hand. Yes, that was Ant's point - Liz left the notes in anticipation for future Explorers. But why so specific, explaining that she's warning Layer 5 before Mur strikes?! That means that Liz was still in The Core while we were, or at least, at a relatively close time (because we're unsure how fast Mur got to Liz when we entered The Core.)

This has nothing to do with Mur's multiple "The Player"'s trying to complete Mur's task(s), it's all about timing - Liz left the notes knowing someone was in The Core and turned off the DefSys for Mur (and she probably knew we didn't know what havoc Mur would install while bypassing the DefSys, otherwise she would've left us the dark.)

I don't understand what the problem is here - As I said before, it's all happening in real-time.