Pastelland Forum

Rooster5man wrote:My point is that both abiogenesis and reincarnation have unknown means of where life comes from. You said it yourself - abiogenesis is yet unproven. And reincarnation, as you and Vurn have said, is mathematically disproven. Were it not mathematically disproven, you still can't say where that "first soul" came from.

Well technically abiogenesis is a means of where life comes from.

Rooster5man wrote:
@Vurn: I understand it's been mathematically disproven, but referencing a Wikipedia page won't help your case, lol.

I firmly believe everything I read on Wikipedia

Wikipedia can sometimes be a good source of information. Just check it's citations. It also depends on what page you're viewing. I guarantee the page for the Clausius-Clapeyron Equation has been vandalized far less times than the page for Adolf Hitler has.

Isobel The Sorceress wrote:I personally don't understand why anyone would like to live forever. Sounds boring to me.

It never seemed boring to me, but it also seemed to come at it's own unique price.
Personally, the idea of living to see the rise and fall of civilizations, accruing more knowledge and experience than any one human has ever gathered, observing the far reaches of space and discovering the secrets of the universe that no human today could ever know thanks to the limitations of death; all of this has fantastical value to me. At the same time, one would not wish to live past the heat death of the universe- were it to proceed uninterrupted by life or other astronomical events unknown to us, and one would also have to witness the deaths of every single being one ever met. Then again, we, as humans, witness the deaths of loved ones throughout our life, and the typical person will bounce back. Even so, with an immortal body, there's no telling if the human mind would be as resilient as the body. That's not exactly a case psychologists have been able to study.

So basically, I don't see immortality to be without appeal, but I also see it to be a sort of Faustian deal of sorts. Not that I ever expect this deal to be an option in my lifetime.

@ Raxas
I can also see the appeal of witnessing the milestones of humanity, but I'm not really convinced that the human mind could take it.
I've always wanted more life in my years, and not more years in my life.

Get in line with Allan Quatermain, Orlando, and Mina Harker. Though I would recommend avoiding Orlando way.

I would not want to live forever, but I could enjoy living for a very long time. An eternity is just way too long.

OnyxIonVortex wrote:But I understand Anteroinen's point as, if the number of living beings in the world is increasing, where do the extra souls come from? They are being created now?

Well, I saw it as a more of "Infinite time," where it could be one soul within all these bodies over an infinite amount of time. Regardless, he's right, I'm not denying that.

Well technically abiogenesis is a means of where life comes from.

The question is how though. Being it's theoretical, I'm sure an answer still doesn't exist, and may never exist.

About immortality: I had Raxas's way of thinking for a while, but realistically, you're right, Iso - Would the average person exchange seeing the marvels of the human empire over the loss of thousands upon thousands of people? You'd go insane, and that's probably why most immortal comic book figures are insane in some way (or I imagine they would be.)

As for immortality in the christian conception, 1. you wouldn't be immortal in this universe, but apparently immortal in an undying universe, 2. you would be in the presence of God, which for us at least is extremely orgasmically cool, 3. you wouldn't be doing nothing unless you wanted to. At the very least you would be enjoying the company of God and all the other people in heaven, and probably get to know the angelic beings. You would also have another whole earth to explore and enjoy, which I think would be pretty cool. But many Christians think there will still be projects to be done, though they will be almost solely relational unless God fires up another creation event, in which case we might get to be participants in it.

As for enjoying life even though you know it is all for naught, well, I can appreciate the sentiment I guess, but I feel like I would be settling for it. I can understand wanting to help those who come after you have a better time of it too. Ultimately, however, when I try to put myself in those shoes, I find myself very depressed and lost. I feel like I would go crazy thinking that I could die at any minute and there would be no point to it all, no reason to not just grab all the gusto I can regardless of the ultimate cost, because ultimately there will be no one around to pay the bill. That is just me of course. I can't argue any one else ought to feel that way. Perhaps if I hadn't experienced God and started on this walk with him I would understand the view point better. Maybe I would be just fine, but as it is it just seem creepy.

I'm not understanding where this 'no point' thing is coming from. What do you mean?

Isobel The Sorceress wrote:@ Raxas
I can also see the appeal of witnessing the milestones of humanity, but I'm not really convinced that the human mind could take it.
I've always wanted more life in my years, and not more years in my life.

I can agree with that. If I'm not gonna live that long I might as well do the most with the time I do have.

Taalit wrote:I would not want to live forever, but I could enjoy living for a very long time. An eternity is just way too long.

This I would also agree with.

Anyway, I have a slightly less philosophical and more political topic; gun control and gun rights.
That's been a popular topic lately. I'm curious as to what you guys think.