Pastelland Forum

The world would be a LOT more crowded place, and eventually we'll all have to resort to cannibalism because all the other animals and plants would be crowded out by us.
If we ever need to eat at all.

Yeah, that's why I said "if you could live with them", because soon the Earth would get overpopulated XD. But that's not my main reason.

One philosophical/scientific-ish point I've heard is that it isn't your personality that is reincarnated. Each new baby's personality is a mixture of their unique genetic make up and their experiences. So, unless there is some soulish substance, you would be a completely different person every time you reincarnate. Many proponents of reincarnation have acknowledged this and there response is that it isn't the personality that reincarnates, but your karma: the balance of good vs bad in your life.

Kind of strange, but interesting.

I must say that between the idea that there might not be life after death and the idea that there might not be an eternity for humanity, that these two concepts together are one of the many reasons I will probably always be trying the God Experiment, no matter what evidence and reasons I find to the contrary. I think I could be content with my life ending in oblivion so long as I thought the actions I took would have eternal significance, but if the whole human race and the universe itself is doomed, what is the point of any of my actions? They all add up to a big zero if there is no one to "read the story" so to speak.

As for living forever, the Christian idea of that is quite different then just living forever as normal flesh and blood. We wouldn't reproduce for one thing, and the new earth is described as having no oceans presumably because there wouldn't be room for all the people, though some say that is because the oceans have always been symbols of evil in the Jewish tradition (because of their unfathomable depth an weird creatures... think Cthulhu). At any rate, this and the fact that the city God creates for the inhabitants in the New Heavens and New Earth is a cube so big it would collapse under its own weight, and the idea that Jesus in his resurrection body could apparently walk through walls, suggests that physics would have to work differently. I don't know where the idea of sitting on clouds playing harps came from. Probably WB cartoons. XD But I've always looked forward to heaven as a chance to hear the story of people who have lived in almost every time and place in history.

One philosophical/scientific-ish point I've heard is that it isn't your personality that is reincarnated. Each new baby's personality is a mixture of their unique genetic make up and their experiences. So, unless there is some soulish substance, you would be a completely different person every time you reincarnate. Many proponents of reincarnation have acknowledged this and there response is that it isn't the personality that reincarnates, but your karma: the balance of good vs bad in your life.

But if the personality doesn't reincarnate then they would be different persons, not? And then karmic transmission would be unfair, because it wasn't you who did bad things and now they happen to you... though well, they say life is unfair, why not death too XD

I must say that between the idea that there might not be life after death and the idea that there might not be an eternity for humanity, that these two concepts together are one of the many reasons I will probably always be trying the God Experiment, no matter what evidence and reasons I find to the contrary. I think I could be content with my life ending in oblivion so long as I thought the actions I took would have eternal significance, but if the whole human race and the universe itself is doomed, what is the point of any of my actions? They all add up to a big zero if there is no one to "read the story" so to speak.

Well, it would be truly disappointing if everything we do were gonna be ultimately for nothing... like that tale of the milkmaid. People change the world, construct cities, make works of art, make scientific progress, go to the Moon, fully live their lifes, etc. only so that in a few eons the Sun grows into a red giant sending everything to hell (semi-literally).

But following the analogy of the milkmaid, I think one can find a purpose of dreaming for things even if you know you won't succeed, that is dreaming just for the pleasure of dreaming, living just for the pleasure of living. Even if one accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for life, that is not enough reason for sinking into despair. It's... like when you make a sand castle, you know it will be destroyed and all your effort would make into nothing, but you still make it because you somehow feel it's worth the pain so that you can admire its beauty and feel happy during the ephemeral moment it exists. Or when you agree to have a race with your friends, just to see how far can you reach. I... can't explain it well, but I think one can find its own purpose in life even when there is no "real" purpose. Going back to the issue, there may not be a god to see your achievements in life, but you know you achieved them and that's enough for you to feel happy and complete. At least I feel that way, probably many people still would want to have faith that there is actually a ultimate purpose, and of course no need to say that I respect that. After all, according to the moral of the story people who dream too are more likely to have a bad time later

and sorry for my shitty explanations XD

As for living forever, the Christian idea of that is quite different then just living forever as normal flesh and blood. We wouldn't reproduce for one thing, and the new earth is described as having no oceans presumably because there wouldn't be room for all the people, though some say that is because the oceans have always been symbols of evil in the Jewish tradition (because of their unfathomable depth an weird creatures... think Cthulhu). At any rate, this and the fact that the city God creates for the inhabitants in the New Heavens and New Earth is a cube so big it would collapse under its own weight, and the idea that Jesus in his resurrection body could apparently walk through walls, suggests that physics would have to work differently. I don't know where the idea of sitting on clouds playing harps came from. Probably WB cartoons. XD But I've always looked forward to heaven as a chance to hear the story of people who have lived in almost every time and place in history.

Oh... I didn't know that. My idea of heaven was actually that sitting on clouds playing harps, heheh probably because I saw that represented in churchs when I was little.

I personally don't understand why anyone would like to live forever. Sounds boring to me.
The concept of christian heaven sounds even more boring. Everything is perfect. This means that nothing ever happens, and nothing ever changes. What's the point?

But I've always looked forward to heaven as a chance to hear the story of people who have lived in almost every time and place in history.

If I'd have to go somewhere after death, I'd go to the first circle of hell. All the cool people worth talking to like Sokrates and Platon are there (according to Dante).

All the cool people worth talking to like Sokrates and Platon are there (according to Dante).

Of course, that's what Dante THINKS.

But following the analogy of the milkmaid, I think one can find a purpose of dreaming for things even if you know you won't succeed, that is dreaming just for the pleasure of dreaming, living just for the pleasure of living. Even if one accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for life, that is not enough reason for sinking into despair. It's... like when you make a sand castle, you know it will be destroyed and all your effort would make into nothing, but you still make it because you somehow feel it's worth the pain so that you can admire its beauty and feel happy during the ephemeral moment it exists. Or when you agree to have a race with your friends, just to see how far can you reach. I... can't explain it well, but I think one can find its own purpose in life even when there is no "real" purpose. Going back to the issue, there may not be a god to see your achievements in life, but you know you achieved them and that's enough for you to feel happy and complete. At least I feel that way, probably many people still would want to have faith that there is actually a ultimate purpose, and of course no need to say that I respect that. After all, according to the moral of the story people who dream too are more likely to have a bad time later

Kind of like how life is what you make of it, not some predestined thing, or what you need to achieve a certain goal planned out beforehand.

I find reincarnation to be mathematically impossible. First there was no life and - what do you know - know there is.

I must say that between the idea that there might not be life after death and the idea that there might not be an eternity for humanity, that these two concepts together are one of the many reasons I will probably always be trying the God Experiment, no matter what evidence and reasons I find to the contrary. I think I could be content with my life ending in oblivion so long as I thought the actions I took would have eternal significance, but if the whole human race and the universe itself is doomed, what is the point of any of my actions? They all add up to a big zero if there is no one to "read the story" so to speak.

But there will be people for a long time after you. Wouldn't it be nice to do something good for them? Allow me to make a poor, poor analogy: one day, the first campfire was made. This invention has helped our species thrive on this planet. Nobody remembers who did this, but his or her effort has saved millions of people. Millions lived better lives due to this invention. Our species will perish one day; does that make these lives meaningless?

Kind of like how my great-granddad died in the same year (but before) I was born.

Interesting. Yeah, I guess you could say coincedence, but you must admit it's a strange coincedence.

About reincarnation meaning immortality: I didn't think of it in that way. Think about this: We don't remember our former lives, so reincarnation is merely regenerating into a new body with a new set of thoughts. A meaningless way of starting new life, but the same "person" living all these lives.

I find reincarnation to be mathematically impossible. First there was no life and - what do you know - know there is.

Isn't that just like how life started on Earth? Where did that first sentient being come from? And yet here we are.

I find reincarnation to be mathematically impossible. First there was no life and - what do you know - know there is.

Isn't that just like how life started on Earth? Where did that first sentient being come from? And yet here we are.

Life is self-replicating, yet reincarnation implies that souls - or whatever essence one subscribes to - are not.

Oh, true. However, while we're on the subject, if life is self-replicating, where did the first being come from? Yes, there's evolution, but for life to suddenly appear out of nowhere, and then I suppose it was asexual if it was the only of its kind and continued to make life.