Submachine 9: the Temple

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WorldisQuiet5256
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

K_Z wrote: Which brings up a very valid question - how come Elizabeth is seen by Mur? Love it how both answers to the "Why does this sociopath talk only to Elizabeth?" question skirted this part. Logically, she must be present in all the layers for him to see too. Yet she is also able to interact with all the other people that are not seen by Mur. Is she not focused enough? She also clearly saw all the destruction Mur's portals brought, whilst he did not see it until coming to the Knot. How did she get her abilities? And why?

She is The Mother.
She is The Sister
She is...

Just ignor me, I may have answer.
But I have yet to learn how to get it out of my Subconscious.

DAMN YOU SUBCONSCIOUS!
YOU TOLD ME ONCE! WHY NOT TWICE!
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The Abacus
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by The Abacus »

K_Z wrote:
The Abacus wrote:
Murtaugh: If there's one thing I regret - it's the fact that of all people I sent to the edge no one ever came back. Not a single soul. That will haunt me for the rest of my life...

Liz: I know.
We tried to turn off the defense systems, but we came back. If we were the only ones who came back and that green karma portal transported 742 years into the future, then it's no wonder that Murtaugh never knew that someone did return.
Then how was he able to invade the Core for the first time, as he needed at least one instance of the defense systems being turned off? Unless, someone succeeded and he left them there on purpose, so that that person, and then all the other people, could not come back...? Else, all those interactions in Sub6 were a setup. Especially since in sub5 he simply tells us to investigate the edge and return unharmed. Notably, we were not told we were the first ones to investigate, we were told we were "the best man for the job". All this stuff with disabling the defense systems comes from all those notes in Sub6. And the final message too, is of unverified origin, really. Could the Sub6 escapade be a simple coincidence with Mur finding the right location to get into the Core?
Note also how in Sub7 Liz is welcoming you and references being "tested" by Mur. Not sure if being left at the end of Sub6 effectively for dead is a "test". At least this greatly clashes with the "regrets" part of it. Unless this is after his second enlightenment. However, there is that bit about the necessity to shut down the defense systems in the notes from Sub9.
?

What I said had nothing to do with Murtaugh's ability to invade the Core.
WiQ wrote:The Wise Man.
The Monk.
The Submachine form.
The Person who is neutral, yet everywhere.
Who/what are these?
The wise man, I presume, was the person mentioned in this note:
Once there was a man who said he knew what was happening after Murtaugh left.
Since then that man left us as well.
But the others??
Lyds wrote:It seems like Elizabeth must have had some sort of powers, maybe not karma arm abilities, but some sort of power that gives her a greater than one dimensional mind.
Yes, I had that impression as well. Murtaugh and Liz, do after all, play parallel roles in the story.
Balance is imperative; without it, total collapse and destruction is imminent.
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

The Abacus wrote:
WiQ wrote:The Wise Man.
The Monk.
The Submachine form.
The Person who is neutral, yet everywhere.
Who/what are these?
The wise man, I presume, was the person mentioned in this note:
Once there was a man who said he knew what was happening after Murtaugh left.
Since then that man left us as well.
But the others??
The "Others" were followers of both groups, Mur and Liz.
The "Wiseman" came from here...
last summer I went camping under the big waterfall of Kent. I guess this was a great trip for me, however some people do not understand why. Well, I did lose my left arm, but what the hell, I found out that I had a third
arm. The invisible one. Since then I started to learn how to use my karma arm, and soon my skills were those of a master. It wasn't a surprise to me when people started turning their backs on me, since I was considered to be a freak and mentally ill. Funny thing, I can't tell them the truth, it would be like explaining the possibility of space travel to a goldfish. So I'm just trying to
When I read this note, it does not appear as a Simple "Camping trip". You know how we are wondering the purpose as to why the Player of the Submachine is doing what he is at all? Like shutting down the Defense System, coming out of the Loop? We are going through the same thing Mur went through.

The "Others" mention in Liz notes, are in a manner of speaking "Average" people like you and me.
Like how we live out our lives, and some of us are smarter than other people, yet some of those "Average" people are elected into government? Who to say the "Others" didn't form a government system while in the Core.

But the whole reason for the Player Existence is to restart the cycle of the Submachine Story.
We are being "Born" through our mother and father, Mur and Liz.
You want to know why we haven't "Seen" anybody?

We are IN History.
We are IN Memory.

For example, the Loop...Murtaugh went through it as well.
When Murtaugh put his arm into the waterfall, he noticed that he no longer had an arm, but seven of them. That was not something unexpectable.
What is a miracle, though, is that after he removed his arm from the waterfall - he still could see all seven layers of his left arm.
We (The Player) then leave the Loop. After "Gathering" our collective thoughts of ourselves. The Loop is a Test of the Mind. Remember what it said in the intro?
here is no Diary Page
There is no Menu
There is no Spoon
There is no Trash bin
In fact there is nothing to collect at all
It's just you and the machine
The whole time we are playing the game, we the people of earth. When we are trying to solve the puzzles what are we doing?

THINKING!

And what do we do when we try to think?

FOCUS!


Then We (The Player) then end up at the Lab.
Not longer after that he understood, that focusing them all in one place created a portal. That was because all of his arms from all of the layers met at one place and caused he interdimensional karma flow at his fingertips.
Nobody could predict that the enlightenment would cause such destruction. Even Murtaugh himself didn't know what happened. He was already looking at all layers at once. He was already removed from one-dimensionality.
To be back in only one layer, Murtaugh had to lose his focus. After he focused his mind back on the structure of the plan, his exploration teams didn't understand what happened. Some called it abandonment. Others - rapture. No wonder they panicked.

They did not even have a philosophical device to comprehend the true nature of his disappearance.
The Player, all through out the series has been wandering around through key points in Mur and Liz "History" within the timeline they both lived.

You how some ancient cultures speak of how life never ends?

That Life as a whole is born?
Then grows.
Then lives.
Then Die.
Then is reborn out of the remains of the previous life?

Like the Egyptian mythology about the God Ra?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra#Role

How is it possible, that people are still coming through the loop and trying to turn off the defense systems? After all these years...
- What would you have me do. Destroy his creation? Destroy the whole section?
- I don't know... Maybe...
- You're talking about destroying our history. What next, book burning?
- No, of course not. But maybe... A sign? That it's no longer necessary to shut down the defenses?
- And what about those in the eighth layer?
- I stand corrected...
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Pulsaris
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by Pulsaris »

I thought we already had a consensus that there were reincarnations of Mur. And the Exit means moksha (in more familiar terms, nirvana), escaping from the life-death cycle.
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by Sublevel 114 »

I wonder why we all talk only about that Shiva and its religion. Why we didn't talk about it before? Because we didn't see it earlier.

Boom! Temple includes Shiva statue, Shiva cult, etc... BOOM! We put Shiva God on first place.
But we didn't find ANY mention about it before!

And last question: why did these people of Temple cult think it was specific God? How they knew it???


----------------
I think we all are in GREAT delusion. We are searching answers in wrong place.
Pulsaris
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by Pulsaris »

Sublevel 102 wrote:I wonder why we all talk only about that Shiva and its religion. Why we didn't talk about it before? Because we didn't see it earlier.

Boom! Temple includes Shiva statue, Shiva cult, etc... BOOM! We put Shiva God on first place.
But we didn't find ANY mention about it before!

And last question: why did these people of Temple cult think it was specific God? How they knew it???


----------------
I think we all are in GREAT delusion. We are searching answers in wrong place.
Sub4: The Lab. The Lab is a place for doing science.
Sub5: The Root. It's also a place for scientific research.
Sub6: The Edge. Absolute science fiction. But Thoth the Egyptian god is hiding as a secret,

Sub7: The Core. Now it's the fun part. The winter palace is claimed to be a place for science. But we start seeing Buddha in the Sanctuary. There's a Dharma wheel in Liz's ship.

Sub8: The Plan. Now there is a mosque in Layer 2. A two-screen-tall statue in Layer 5. People in Layer 7 worshipped Liz for 742 years. The only places with significant signs of technology are Layer 1, 4 and 6.

Sub9: The Temple. The only technological devices shown are the Navigator, its eighth button, and the broken Mover. If I didn't play through the whole series, I would think the game was about Hindu sorcery.
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by ENIHCAMBUS »

But Mateusz hinted that Sub10 will be more machine-like, so whats the point there.
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by The Abacus »

Pulsaris wrote:I thought we already had a consensus that there were reincarnations of Mur. And the Exit means moksha (in more familiar terms, nirvana), escaping from the life-death cycle.
I think that that was just an idea that was discussed, but I don't we got further than "that's a possibility."
Enihcambus wrote:But Mateusz hinted that Sub10 will be more machine-like, so whats the point there.
Well, Sub9 suggests that Shiva or some sort of other divine entity plays an important role in the plot. :?
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by The Kakama »


Well, Sub9 suggests that Shiva or some sort of other divine entity plays an important role in the plot. :?
Maybe sub10 will be like sub7, somewhat futuristic but still integrated with ancient influences.
Maybe it will be explained by a more "modern" people (modern in terms of using machinery) that "Shiva" is a metaphor for a greater force, perhaps the Submachine itself.
Is this my final form?
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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Post by ENIHCAMBUS »

What happened with Sub9 loader? 0_o
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