Pastelland Forum

The Abacus wrote:

Murtaugh: If there's one thing I regret - it's the fact that of all people I sent to the edge no one ever came back. Not a single soul. That will haunt me for the rest of my life...

Liz: I know.

We tried to turn off the defense systems, but we came back. If we were the only ones who came back and that green karma portal transported 742 years into the future, then it's no wonder that Murtaugh never knew that someone did return.

One thing, how did the portal teleport US into the future but NOT Murtaugh ?

The Kakama wrote: One thing, how did the portal teleport US into the future but NOT Murtaugh ?

The Knot of course.
We had to untie it.

Because Murtaugh did make it to the the Temple in that Green Portal.

Cause His Exit Portal right there.

But you got a point, Abacus, the Green Karma Portal might have transported us to the future for some reason.
It might have something to do with the fact that it was a Green Karma Portal?
Cause in the Temple, the Karmatic Liquid was green, and the fact it could be seen across all of the seven layers, including the Layer of Light. Not Time.

Okay...remember this note:

A woman came to our village. No one knows exactly how she entered, since the gate was closed at the time. She went straight to the [term not translational], and one minute later a beam of bright light shot from it straight up to the sky. When she disappeared we knew we were blessed with the presence of the goddess. That was 742 years ago, and we worship her to this day.

We know that Liz was possibly "Running away" from Murtaugh, but it might be something we one multilayer dimensional people might not understand.

The Elisabeth met up with but then she and Murtaugh then met up with each other at one point. Which was Layer 5, the Water Pantheon. We also know that it was Elisabeth who returned Einstein back to his original Layer.

I starting to get the feeling Einstein is Shiva, or some type of God or Goddess. Because it is kinda looking like their are "Higher Beings" than just Murtuagh and Elisabeth.

When I woke up there was a black cat inside the lighthouse. I clearly remember locking all the doors and windows before going to bed - yet - there he was. I have no idea how he could get inside.

A woman came to our village. No one knows exactly how she entered, since the gate was closed at the time.

But what we can see is that Elisabeth was "Running Away" towards Murtaugh. Cause, if he ended up in Layer 1 of the Plan.

Murtaugh is coming. We should go.
We should go now

And Possibly Elisabeth ended up at Layer One in her Escape Pod, while Murtaugh was "Chasing her", then they made a stand at the Water Pantheon. But Einstein, was unlocking the Temple Door at the Time.

Again...I find myself Rambling.
But...could Einstein possibly be Shiva? Cause, she was untying the knot during Mur and Liz incident.
And (despite there is no One religion involved with the Submachine World) in many Greek mythology, the gods would sometimes turn into the animal they represent when they "went down to Earth" from mount Olympus.

The Kakama wrote:One thing, how did the portal teleport US into the future but NOT Murtaugh ?

It probably did, but being Murtaugh, it was just as simple for him to go back.

Here's what might have happened:
Murtaugh made a portal within a portal and was transported to the future. He made another Karma portal to get back to the present and ended in the screen where we got the energy trail from. He went inside the temple where the events in the following notes occurred:

Murtaugh never said it was about revenge. But by then he was well used to not being understood. Back then they didn't yet have seven-layer bullets.

The only option was to meet him at the knot. The place where all dimensions intertwined to become one. Then and there, they waited.

And when he appeared, Murtaugh was finally able to see what has happened. He fell to his knees. She came to him, sat down beside him and they started talking.

The bullets never reached them.

After the second enlightenment Murtaugh dedicated his life to restoring the chaos. While the main layers flourished under his word, the third dimension remained broken.

Murtaugh was originally from the third layer, therefore there was nothing he could do to bring it back to the unbroken state. He often spoke about it as being a thorn in his heart. This was consuming him until the day Shiva gave him comfort of knowledge of the future.

Murtaugh was already dying, and just before he drew his last breath - the light came to him and showed him what was to come. We believe he stayed in that moment forever.

During the time when he was restoring what he had destroyed, he removed the portal which he took to go back to the present and the one we (i.e. the Player) took at the end of Sub7 (hence why we never saw the other end of that portal), closing our way back as well. If Murtaugh was transported to the exact same point in time, it would explain why the damage from the Karma portal is still visible.

When we used the portal that Murtaugh created we were transported into the future, but by then Murtaugh had already removed all of the Karma portals.

WiQ wrote:Because it is kinda looking like their are "Higher Beings" than just Murtuagh and Elisabeth.

The note in the Temple regarding Einstein explains Murtaugh's diary pages

I know, but...its kinda hinted.
We know who Einstein is, but only as a cat?
The reason why I suppose there are higher beings is this one thing.
If Liz was being followed by Murtaugh, and she was running to the temple.
She would have to undo the knot first.
But then...okay my mistake.

I thought that Einstein was a possible "goddess" because I thought that as Liz was untying the knot, Einstein was already ahead and was in Bamboo town by the time Liz got to the temple.
I forgot the variable of time. Yeah, that person could be Liz.

But "Shiva"? All those cultures are combined within the Submachine.
Despite their difference, they all have a "Higher Being" as a Goddess.
The Temple itself is Multilayer Architecture, its made up a Pyramid, with a Chinese tower within the pyramid, connected to an Aztec Tomb. with a Hindu statue at the base. And in the Notes left behind, which I have to assume were place after all these Temples occupied the same space. And they all keep mentioning a Higher Being known as "Shiva".

Okay...This a thought that came to mind: Please understand this thought is back up by some logic I have done, I have yet to remember what it is. My Subconscious did most of the work.

The Player is Murtaugh and Elisabeth "Child."

We know they made peace, and Murtaugh sought to fix the Chaos he created.
He wasn't able to fix everything. But Shiva shown him a vision of this "Fixture" of his chaos and he supposedly died with this last vision and is viewing it "Forever". So their is a solution.
Liz still lives in the end after he dies to "Spread Murtaugh Words".
She Dies later and they are both buried side by side by someone, possible not people.

Then we have all these people coming out of the Loop and turning off the Defense System, even though there is no need. We have "The Player" not only passing through all these test, and now is at the Temple. He learns the faith of Murtaugh and Elisabeth.

I see function here: How do we fix the Chaos Murtaugh Cause?

- We have people still trying to turn off the Defense System even though they don't need to, its a part of "History".
- We have two Multilayer Wise People who can only do some much together.
- We know they died at some point and the Damage is not totally fix.
- We need this wisdom pass on so the Submachine can be Fix totally.

The Player is the Child of Murtaugh and Liz, his function?
To fix the Damage to the Submachine.
All of this (by which I mean the Submachine Game series) is the child being "Born" into the Submachine.
This world is Called the Submachine, so it has a code. It says it damage, it need to fix itself.

Its kinda like that episode of Doctor Who: The Girl in the Fireplace. How the ship was fixing the damage by itself.

Well, it's plausible that the cat is a reincarnation. Not necessarily of Shiva, could be a reincarnation of Elizabeth or even Murtaugh.

Einstein could go through walls, just as Murtaugh broke walls with his karma portals. I think Einstein is a kind of coexisting reincarnation of Murtaugh.
Murtaugh was seeing his own reincarnation.

REDO
Who ever the "Player" is, its not "Human", yet not foreign.

The Player is some being out of a many beings that is being "Reborn" to fix the damage in Layer 3. And to all of the rest of the Submachine.
Cause when I look over The Temple again, I saw the process of "Rebirth" through our progress.

I hate to say it, but...I think I might be slipping into something. Something like a what the civilians of Big Brother.
Damn mass media.

Ancient Crystal wrote:

gil2455526 wrote:And like Mur, we don't see other people?

That's...

.....

Brilliant.

Which brings up a very valid question - how come Elizabeth is seen by Mur? Love it how both answers to the "Why does this sociopath talk only to Elizabeth?" question skirted this part. Logically, she must be present in all the layers for him to see too. Yet she is also able to interact with all the other people that are not seen by Mur. Is she not focused enough? She also clearly saw all the destruction Mur's portals brought, whilst he did not see it until coming to the Knot. How did she get her abilities? And why?

The Abacus wrote:

Murtaugh: If there's one thing I regret - it's the fact that of all people I sent to the edge no one ever came back. Not a single soul. That will haunt me for the rest of my life...

Liz: I know.

We tried to turn off the defense systems, but we came back. If we were the only ones who came back and that green karma portal transported 742 years into the future, then it's no wonder that Murtaugh never knew that someone did return.

Then how was he able to invade the Core for the first time, as he needed at least one instance of the defense systems being turned off? Unless, someone succeeded and he left them there on purpose, so that that person, and then all the other people, could not come back...? Else, all those interactions in Sub6 were a setup. Especially since in sub5 he simply tells us to investigate the edge and return unharmed. Notably, we were not told we were the first ones to investigate, we were told we were "the best man for the job". All this stuff with disabling the defense systems comes from all those notes in Sub6. And the final message too, is of unverified origin, really. Could the Sub6 escapade be a simple coincidence with Mur finding the right location to get into the Core?
Note also how in Sub7 Liz is welcoming you and references being "tested" by Mur. Not sure if being left at the end of Sub6 effectively for dead is a "test". At least this greatly clashes with the "regrets" part of it. Unless this is after his second enlightenment. However, there is that bit about the necessity to shut down the defense systems in the notes from Sub9.

Also, what do you think about "sectors" in the Submachine? Mentioned twice now, by that historical perspective note and in sub8?
Somehow, I get this feeling other sectors were not affected by Mur.

Re notes, there was this one:

Once there was a man who said he knew what was happening after Murtaugh left.
Since then that man left us as well.

Surely this requires some extra knowledge and understanding beyond the contemporaries? Could it be that man did the same trick as Mur and focused?

K_Z wrote:

Once there was a man who said he knew what was happening after Murtaugh left.
Since then that man left us as well.

Surely this requires some extra knowledge and understanding beyond the contemporaries? Could it be that man did the same trick as Mur and focused?

Edit:
He Started out in this group...

last summer I went camping under the big waterfall of Kent. I guess this was a great trip for me, however some people do not understand why. Well, I did lose my left arm, but what the hell, I found out that I had a third arm. The invisible one. Since then I started to learn how to use my karma arm, and soon my skills were those of a master. It wasn't a surprise to me when people started turning their backs on me, since I was considered to be a freak and mentally ill.Funny thing, I can't tell them the truth, it would be like explaining the possibility of space travel to a goldfish. So I'm just trying...

...and ended up in Liz Group.

The Wise Man.
The Monk.
The Submachine form.
The Person who is neutral, yet everywhere.

K_Z wrote:Which brings up a very valid question - how come Elizabeth is seen by Mur? Love it how both answers to the "Why does this sociopath talk only to Elizabeth?" question skirted this part. Logically, she must be present in all the layers for him to see too. Yet she is also able to interact with all the other people that are not seen by Mur. Is she not focused enough? She also clearly saw all the destruction Mur's portals brought, whilst he did not see it until coming to the Knot. How did she get her abilities? And why?

It seems like Elizabeth must have had some sort of powers, maybe not karma arm abilities, but some sort of power that gives her a greater than one dimensional mind.

These notes tell us that Shiva gave Murtaugh his powers, and guided him when he was learning to use his powers.

- The greatest mystery and misconception of the doctrine is that Murtaugh gained his powers.

- He didn't?

- No. They were given to him.

- By whom?...

- By Shiva, naturally.

The light of Shiva drawn Murgaugh to live in the lighthouse.

But, don't forget about this note:

The light of Shiva drawn Elizabeth to leave the lighthouse.

Shiva has guided both Liz and Mur. We know he has given Murtaugh powers, and it would make sense if he has given Elizabeth some sort of power as well. Elizabeth is able to understand Murtaugh while no one else can, and she has a greater level of understanding that seems to suggest that she is not just any person - there is something special to her.