Pastelland Forum

After Sub10 I thought that the flawed copies were the Sublayers of the Main Layers.

Personally I like the thought that they're actually talking about main layers, not sublayers.

Sublayers are kinda a weird concept to introduce in the last game of the series. Considering there are supposed to be infinite sublayers between mains, I find it hard to justify talking about one specific sublayer as special.

Also, there's this:

Five dimensions note wrote:If there is countless number of sub-layers, it's practically impossible for two people the end up in the same layer, right?

- Yes, good observation.

- But the non-living matter can be persistant between layers.

- Yes, there are special building materials mixed with just a hint of karmic water. This technique was discovered during the Fourth Dynasty.

- Naturally. The architects of the Plan...

Which makes it sound like most of the sublayers, if not all, are the same anyway (within a main layer). The only thing that might differ is the human presence in each sublayer.

Five dimensions note wrote:If there is countless number of sub-layers, it's practically impossible for two people the end up in the same layer, right?

- Yes, good observation.

- But the non-living matter can be persistant between layers.

- Yes, there are special building materials mixed with just a hint of karmic water. This technique was discovered during the Fourth Dynasty.

- Naturally. The architects of the Plan...

Since nearly all of the freaking Sub seems to be on many sublayers, how much f***ing karmic water was used on those???
Which leads me to question how does karmic water behave in specific phyiscal and chemical properties; does it evaporate? What's its density? Where does it even originate? Can you drink it? XD

TD wrote:how much f***ing karmic water was used on those???

Five dimensions note wrote:just a hint of karmic water

Not much needed.

If there is countless number of sub-layers, it's practically impossible for two people the end up in the same layer, right?

Almost sounds like a personal hell type of thing. Not a literal hell that is created by misdeeds of the person stuck within that hell, but just an area that one person is restricted to. So basically every person still in the sub-net is in their own layer. Like us, we may have found notes, but its possible those notes originate from another sub-layer. So we too were stuck in our own sub-layer. And does each sub-layer have seven different layers of reality, plus the eighth? Hm... so therefore what we saw in Submachine 1 - 10 might not be the same of what another explorer saw.

But that doesn't explain Submachine 6 where clearly someone else was there. Unless after taking the portal in Sub7 we were transported to a sub-layer and we were in a main layer between Sub 1 - 6...

- But the non-living matter can be persistant between layers.

Notes are non-living...

Gemini523 wrote:So basically every person still in the sub-net is in their own layer.

*sub-layer, I think.

Gemini523 wrote:Like us, we may have found notes, but its possible those notes originate from another sub-layer. So we too were stuck in our own sub-layer. And does each sub-layer have seven different layers of reality, plus the eighth?

No, it's the other way around. Each layer has infinitely many sub-layers. (A sub-layer can't be divided into larger layers)

Gemini523 wrote:Hm... so therefore what we saw in Submachine 1 - 10 might not be the same of what another explorer saw.

I agree.

Gemini523 wrote:But that doesn't explain Submachine 6 where clearly someone else was there. Unless after taking the portal in Sub7 we were transported to a sub-layer and we were in a main layer between Sub 1 - 6...

The way I understand it, you're always in a sub-layer. But that sublayer can be a sublayer of layer 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7. So I don't think it's possible to be just "in a main layer", since layers are comprised of sublayers.

So therefore, Sub6 IS explained. The player and the cliff dweller shared different sublayers in the same layer. Or, technically it's possible that the player was in the same sublayer as the cliff dweller, but we'll never know because the cliff dweller is dead.

Gemini523 wrote:

- But the non-living matter can be persistant between layers.

Notes are non-living...

And that checks out too. Notes can span an infinite amount of sublayers within one layer.

Here's what makes sense to me:

1) Every main layer (interchangeable with the word 'dimension') has its own infinite set of sublayers. Between sublayers, the architecture is the same (including notes), and only people are displaced.

2) Between main layers, the architecture and notes change and people are displaced. Sub8 illustrates this perfectly.

So I was playing Sub7 and came across the fourth dynasty note

The Fourth Dynasty at the peak of it's cultural and technological development was able to create first man-made submachine structure. That was around the beginning of twentieth century and is now considered the birthdate of the outer rim. Those first structures were merely flawed copies of the original structures, but in time they grew into something completely autonomous. Attempts to chart new territories failed miserably leaving the vast submachine wilderness to it's own.

So yes, the root, lighthouse, lab and everything built had an origin and flawed copy. I wonder if the lab in Sub10 is the origin and the lab in Sub4 is the copy?

Gemini523 wrote:So I was playing Sub7 and came across the fourth dynasty note

The Fourth Dynasty at the peak of it's cultural and technological development was able to create first man-made submachine structure. That was around the beginning of twentieth century and is now considered the birthdate of the outer rim. Those first structures were merely flawed copies of the original structures, but in time they grew into something completely autonomous. Attempts to chart new territories failed miserably leaving the vast submachine wilderness to it's own.

So yes, the root, lighthouse, lab and everything built had an origin and flawed copy. I wonder if the lab in Sub10 is the origin and the lab in Sub4 is the copy?

My guess is that the original structure is the one built by Henry O'Toole, the Winter Palace, since it is rooted in practice of anti-structural architecture. It makes sense if you consider the Winter Palace's placement within the Core, as do the Lighthouse and the Root.

Either Henry O'Toole or someone else tried to replicate the works (aka creating Root) while FUSING with the early version of computer intelligence (prototypical SHIVA) and that lead to what we see today as Submachine.

This is an extreme guess by my standard of understanding how Submachine really works. Maybe Winter Palace is not the original structure, perhaps it is something else.

That theory is awesome

Now, replaying holy original version of Sub2 for 3200th time, I finally decided to question myself what is that railing at the very first floor of metal tower for (well, I questioned that before, but never theorized). And I realized... WHAT IF THERE WAS ACTUAL PLACE OF ENTRANCE???? Oo

Edit:
Also, as I understand, windows on the third floor are places in passages on the floor where we use fork on wire? I always wondered where do we ago when we walk into that passages, since we are going beyond metal tower, but ending up inside again.

Edit 2:

WHY IT WAN'T 808???
3432 dammit!
I was so close to the 3232!!!! After 10 years of playing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Btw, guys, did you get any important for you number in your gameplays?