Pastelland Forum

ENIHCAMBUS wrote:Why you're trying to see how Sub10 mirrors Sub1. Did we try to see how Sub9 mirrors Sub2?

Well, mateusz said #Submachine8 mirrored #Submachine3... but why all the other games should mirror its opposite?

RuloCore wrote:

ENIHCAMBUS wrote:Why you're trying to see how Sub10 mirrors Sub1. Did we try to see how Sub9 mirrors Sub2?

Well, mateusz said #Submachine8 mirrored #Submachine3... but why all the other games should mirror its opposite?

Essentially an assumption I am making. If you look at it, Mateusz stressed this mirroring effect for sub8 v sub3. Back in the day it kind of made sense to compare the other installations, especially as it has been known for some time that Sub10 will be the endpoint of this storyline (naturally, I have no clue when the initial idea for mirroring came in, and whether it was just for one case), but if you compare Sub9 and Sub2, there are quite a few similarities too. For instance, Liz begins in sub2 for the player, the Introduction, if you will, and she ends in sub9, the Euology. Both subs support massive structures and massive number of rooms, and have an unusual teleportation in the end (this one is much more vague than the ones we had in subs4-8, let's say). Also, via notes, we meet the Cat, and then, via the notes, the Cat is returned to its original place. Also, if you think of it, we are given a name for Mur only in Sub2, in a way, he's more introduced as a person - again, his path ends in sub 9 and we're told to follow someone else, rather mysterious and unclear, like the sub1-sub2 transition. Boths sub2 and sub9 significantly reveal the plot, initially giving the player some context, and, finally, starting to give and overview of what's happening in the grand scheme of things (plus, a couple of other members here mentioned that they felt that sub9 answers more questions than it poses; to a degree, a lot of what was given in sub2 was kind of taken at face value too, and provided a lot of answers, at least to basic questions). And, of course, we have the intros...
Also notice how we teleport from one sub into the next in all cases bar one - the transporter from sub5 into sub6. And then, sub5 is all analogue, the technological beginning, in a way, whilst sub6 is the digital evolution, possibly its endpoint, the transition from man-supported to self-sufficient. Then with sub 4 and sub 7 we have the Lab and the Core - two focus points for human congregation in the subnet, one adapted and artificial, one more natural and symbiotic.
Mur made-portals, sub3-sub4 transitions, sub7-sub8 transitions. Transporter-as-machine, without player control, effectively, governs sub4-sub5 and sub6-sub7 transitions.
Naturally, those are not perfect mirrors, but sub9, at least for me, fit those expectations rather well.

For sub1, just replayed it. Got a couple of questions: note one mentions space travel and goldfish - to what extent would Mur, in 1906, be aware of such possibilities (as, in his time, they were purely hypothetical, while his karma arm was working pretty well indeed)?
In sub2, we famously begin with the wisdom gem (attainable in extended, but not original version of sub1), and note1 of them all, but what happens to that 50 eurocent coin? Surely it did not end up in the Arcade (and act as the real portal, now wouldn't that would be amusing)?

Yeah, also Mateusz itself said it. In a post he put the games in a symmetry line that... well it's better with images XD



it's also what led Postillionen to say that Sub8 mirrors Sub3 as a special case:



EDIT: so it's pretty much guaranteed that Sub10 will mirror Sub1, I hope it's not in the number of rooms

in the number of rooms

9?
-_-

Also, thank you for cutting me in half, Vorty.

yep
and hey, I also cut myself! XD

Mateusz also confirmed that symmetry line somewhere – I think it was right afterwards.

K_Z wrote:If you look at it, Mateusz stressed this mirroring effect for sub8 v sub3. Back in the day it kind of made sense to compare the other installations, especially as it has been known for some time that Sub10 will be the endpoint of this storyline (naturally, I have no clue when the initial idea for mirroring came in, and whether it was just for one case), but if you compare Sub9 and Sub2, there are quite a few similarities too. For instance, Liz begins in sub2 for the player, the Introduction, if you will, and she ends in sub9, the Euology. Both subs support massive structures and massive number of rooms, and have an unusual teleportation in the end (this one is much more vague than the ones we had in subs4-8, let's say). Also, via notes, we meet the Cat, and then, via the notes, the Cat is returned to its original place. Also, if you think of it, we are given a name for Mur only in Sub2, in a way, he's more introduced as a person - again, his path ends in sub 9 and we're told to follow someone else, rather mysterious and unclear, like the sub1-sub2 transition. Boths sub2 and sub9 significantly reveal the plot, initially giving the player some context, and, finally, starting to give and overview of what's happening in the grand scheme of things (plus, a couple of other members here mentioned that they felt that sub9 answers more questions than it poses; to a degree, a lot of what was given in sub2 was kind of taken at face value too, and provided a lot of answers, at least to basic questions). And, of course, we have the intros...
Also notice how we teleport from one sub into the next in all cases bar one - the transporter from sub5 into sub6. And then, sub5 is all analogue, the technological beginning, in a way, whilst sub6 is the digital evolution, possibly its endpoint, the transition from man-supported to self-sufficient. Then with sub 4 and sub 7 we have the Lab and the Core - two focus points for human congregation in the subnet, one adapted and artificial, one more natural and symbiotic.
Mur made-portals, sub3-sub4 transitions, sub7-sub8 transitions. Transporter-as-machine, without player control, effectively, governs sub4-sub5 and sub6-sub7 transitions.
Naturally, those are not perfect mirrors, but sub9, at least for me, fit those expectations rather well.

Wow, that's a lot of parallels, a generous amount of which I never noticed.

A few other sub2/9 parallels:

• - the atmosphere
  - the map of the temple, when flipped, resembles the top part of the lighthouse

yeah. And also, in Sub2 we accessed Liz's room by sewers, in Sub9 we access Mur's tomb by sewers

And at the end of both, we arrived at a portal of sorts.
Also, the notes in sub 9 complement those in sub2.

The Kakama wrote:And at the end of both, we arrived at a portal of sorts.

Portals of light.

ENIHCAMBUS wrote:

The Kakama wrote:And at the end of both, we arrived at a portal of sorts.

Portals of light.

And it's not the guiding light, we guide the light. And since Mur did his original jump, we get guided by him in sub2 portal by following in his footsteps?

And at the end of sub9, we're asked to let Shiva guide us - again, the light portal is pre-drawn, we just have to follow it through...


I wonder which layer we start out on in sub1? And that blinking with appearance of the door - could it be us jumping into layer 3 and the Lighthouse (since Mur is originally from there)?