Pastelland Forum

I have just realized. Ok, Layer 3 is copy of original, but it still have part of the plan! If it will be completely shattered, the plan will be lost forever! And someone says that it isn't so important??!

Layer 3 is copy of original, but it still have part of the plan

Wait, I thought all the layers were copies of the original and all had at least bits and pieces of plan. I feel like I'm missing a piece of vital information.

The possible Function could be creating Places, Homes, Structures or other Forms of Architecture, Engineering, or Inventing from thin Air as results of the Boundaries of our Reality restricting our Creative Capability to the Laws of Physics. the Submachine World is not like Earth in the Physical Dimension, I could possible build a normal looking Door that when I walk through it I did not step 2 Feet but 2 Mile from where I once was.

Possible, there's nothing to prove or disprove that though.

The Abacus wrote:

Layer 3 is copy of original, but it still have part of the plan

Wait, I thought all the layers were copies of the original and all had at least bits and pieces of plan. I feel like I'm missing a piece of vital information.

Yeah, I don't get what Sublevel said either. Let's go back to basics.

- Doesn't he understand that his karma portals are shattering this dimension?

- This dimension? You mean the third one? You know that's not even the original dimension, right? What do you think is more important - the origin or the flawed copy?

The note where this is found may be Layer 3, as in "the third dimension."

As Abacus just pointed out, every Layer is a copy of the original, just how you can make copies of a hand-written essay, yet the original hand-written essay is the original (lame example, but bear with me.)

So let's delve further into this note. I can't recall the following assumption I'm about to make ever being made, but I do remember having a conversation somewhere (possibly this thread) about the Layers being numbered in accordance to how they've been stacked by the Architects (i.e. those who created "The Plan"), not necessarily numbering the Layers in order of their creation. How do you reach this conclusion? Well, after all, Mur's destroying the first Layer i.e. The Core, so that must not be the original either.

If I could guess, I'd say Layer 5 is the original just because we're headed further into it - It may be a safe haven from Mur's Karma powers. If everyone else knew (or thought) Mur couldn't come back from the Outer Rim, what purpose would they have in even going to Layer 5? There's some reasoning behind it, and I'd say as (for lack of a better example) another DefSys seperating themselves from Mur and the destruction he can create.

But if you don't like that idea, then the question remains: What purpose did the "Layer 5 people" have in going to Layer 5 in the first place, if the Temple isn't a safe haven? (which the name "The Temple" would imply)

Original or copy - it don't make sense. I said that this copy still has bits and pieces of this stupid plan. Destroying this dimension we destroy these last parts of plan...
*transmission failed*

I always imagined the plan not as a map, but the actual structure of the subnet (i.e. the layers) that seem to be layered upon each other as if some sort of map, but not an actual one. As a result of either the "collapse," or the rapid expansion of the Outer Rim or Mur making the layers unstable or a combination of these, the "plan" (whatever it is) has become the remnants of its former self with only bits and pieces of what it was before any of this instability occurred. Where we were throughout sub8 was a point where all the layers overlapped each other and allowed us to move freely between layers. IF the plan is the structure of the subnet with all its layers then using the navigator outside of this point might have catastrophic consequences to its user. If the plan is a map then this may not be true.

On the Original Layer Issue: We make the assumption that layer 5 is the original layer because we are presumably going to explore another area of layer 5 in sub8 (I support this). But, one could also argue that because Mur damaged part of layer 5 at the other end of the portal that was within another portal, layer 5 is a copy as Mur wouldn't damage the original layer (to our knowledge).

Here is the Oxford Dictionary Definition of the word "temple" (it might show us something we didn't see earlier):

temple 1 |ˈtempəl|
noun
a building devoted to the worship, or regarded as the dwelling place, of a god or gods or other objects of religious reverence.
• (the Temple) either of two successive religious buildings of the Jews in Jerusalem. The first (957–586 bc) was built by Solomon and destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar; it contained the Ark of the Covenant. The second (515 bc – ad 70) was enlarged by Herod the Great from 20 bc and destroyed by the Romans during a Jewish revolt; all that remains is the Western Wall.
• (the Temple) a group of buildings in Fleet Street in London that stand on land formerly occupied by the headquarters of the Knights Templar. Located there are the Inner and Outer Temple, two of the Inns of Court.
• a synagogue.
• a place of Christian public worship, esp. a Protestant church in France.

ORIGIN Old English templ, tempel, reinforced in Middle English by Old French temple, both from Latin templum ‘open or consecrated space.’

temple 2 |ˈtempəl|
noun
the flat part of either side of the head between the forehead and the ear.

ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French, from an alteration of Latin tempora, plural of tempus ‘temple of the head.’

temple 3 |ˈtempəl|
noun
a device in a loom for keeping the cloth stretched.

I always imagined the plan not as a map, but the actual structure of the subnet (i.e. the layers) that seem to be layered upon each other as if some sort of map, but not an actual one. As a result of either the "collapse," or the rapid expansion of the Outer Rim or Mur making the layers unstable or a combination of these, the "plan" (whatever it is) has become the remnants of its former self with only bits and pieces of what it was before any of this instability occurred. Where we were throughout sub8 was a point where all the layers overlapped each other and allowed us to move freely between layers. IF the plan is the structure of the subnet with all its layers then using the navigator outside of this point might have catastrophic consequences to its user. If the plan is a map then this may not be true.

I don't understand where you came up with the idea that it's a map, I (as I thought this was the accepted belief) thought it was more of the "actual structure of the SubNet" (as you pointed out) - Nothing related to a map.

The part about "As a result..." is pretty much what we've thought happened to The Plan (or at least, from what I remember discussing) in between the time it was created and where/when we are now.

If the Layers were overlapped in Sub8, that would mean 2 things:

1) That would help Rulocore's Theory on the "eighth Layer" (overlapping, "ghost layer")

2) When we went from Layer to Layer, wouldn't that mean it's all on the same plane, being overlapped? Yes, the "Layer Board" (as I've termed it, we don't know the actual name - The board that helped us piece all the Layers together thus creating "The Plan") shows every Layer as if they are overlapped on the same plane, but, from the other Layer Board from Sub7 showing the positions of the Layers:



Isn't it more like that than actually all overlapped upon each other in the same plane?

I'm pretty sure using the Navigator outside where we were in Sub8 would have no consequences because the SubNet exists in every Layer, as far as I'm aware, thus using the Navigator in, say, room 001 would take you to that Layer's version of 001.

But, one could also argue that because Mur damaged part of layer 5 at the other end of the portal that was within another portal, layer 5 is a copy as Mur wouldn't damage the original layer (to our knowledge).

But then how does Mur get to any Layer without using the Karma Portals? And I don't assume he uses the Navigator. He didn't extensively damage Layer 5 (regardless, the Portal didn't even take us to Layer 5 as was intended.)

Hmm! Perhaps the Knot exists in the original Layer, being Layer 5. Follow me on this: Because of the Knot, we were redirected to Layer 1, right? And we saw there was damage where the Portal probably should have taken us (over by where we got the Energy Trail at the end), so the damage was caused by Mur intending to have the Portal end there in the first place, but the Knot basically said "You can't land here" and redirected us to Layer One.

It would beg the question why, knowing that, Mur still went to Layer 5. But what if the Knot was created after he towards the Outer Rim? Then it would be logical to say he didn't know the Knot would exist (and being we don't really know who is talking to whom in the "Knots-Playthings" note, even though it could be assumed Mur's talking to Liz, it could be Liz talking to Mur.)

As for the definition of "Temple" - Could the Knights Templar be in any way involved? "We the King," Knight, it's curious. However:

the flat part of either side of the head between the forehead and the ear.

Could it be the "Temple" of the SubNet, although it exists on another Layer? (which, indeed, could be the original Layer - Layer 5, I mean) There is a "Core" after all, like the Heart.

Yes that would make sense. If one used a String to make a Circle then pulled the end of the String so the Circle close into a tight Knot, it would block the entranse. But what about that 3 Green Beemer in layer 1? The one on top of the Scapolding on the right side, does it lead anywhere or does it just keep the Scaploding strait up? The knot in layer 5 might be one of the Defense Mechanisms created to keep People from creating Copys, but it work both ways so Mur couldn't use his Karma Arm to get to the Temple.

The Copy in my opion has a Reason to be there, The Plan as we agree is a Layout or Blueprint of the Structure of the SubNet. The Copy is part of the Structure so it must have a reason for being there regarless of it being Flawed. Maybe the Copy is an expasion from the Orginal so the Void can be explored more. Like how you can expand the size of a building by building a Brigde outwards towards another Building. Maybe not be big like the whole Building but it still expands the size of both Building being they are connected.

The Navigator creates a Bridge that is half the Size of Mur's Karma Portal because Mur's Portal puncture the Layer he in then moves his Arm around the Layer its in into to get around an Obsticle in his Layer then puncture another Hole through the Layer his Arms in back into the Layer he in to create a detour. Like what we did in Sub 8 when there was an Obsticle in the Layer where in. The reason why Mur would want to destroy the Copy is beyond my range of Free Thinking. Maybe he feels the Submachine World is in Chaos due to the uneven Scale of Physical Structure inside the Void we know as the Copy.

• (the Temple) a group of buildings in Fleet Street in London that stand on land formerly occupied by the headquarters of the Knights Templar. Located there are the Inner and Outer Temple, two of the Inns of Court.

As for the definition of "Temple" - Could the Knights Templar be in any way involved? "We the King," Knight, it's curious.

Maybe the Temple was built to House the Knights of the The King who Commision the build of the Winter Palace and South Garden. The Knight I would Theories were in charge of keeping the Order and Balances in the SubNet, also to prevent Unaurthise Copys from being Built. They must have also been In Charge of task of being the Gatekeeper and the Key Master to the Entranse between the Submachine World and Earth. They might have been the Protectors of the The Sanctuary that house the People of Knowledge from people of Mur's Character. I wonder if they were the ones who built the Ship that Liz used as a Reserch Vessel. By the way you can find a Parchel pPcture of that Ship in the Picture Note that give the Details on how to Call the Docking Pod.

The knot in layer 5 might be one of the Defense Mechanisms created to keep People from creating Copys, but it work both ways so Mur couldn't use his Karma Arm to get to the Temple.

That's possible. You mean so another copied Layer isn't created? It's curious why the copies stopped after making 6 though (being one of the Layers is the original, thus 6 copies.) Probably not intentional, but reminds me of Harry Potter - Voldemort splitting his soul in 7.

The Copy in my opion has a Reason to be there, The Plan as we agree is a Layout or Blueprint of the Structure of the SubNet. The Copy is part of the Structure so it must have a reason for being there regarless of it being Flawed. Maybe the Copy is an expasion from the Orginal so the Void can be explored more. Like how you can expand the size of a building by building a Brigde outwards towards another Building. Maybe not be big like the whole Building but it still expands the size of both Building being they are connected.

It's interesting why Mur would want to destroy the copies then if they were intended for exploration. If they were mere expansions on the original Layer, perhaps there are damaging consequences with these expansions and Mur wanted to prevent the original from being destroyed by these "bridges"? Probably not what you meant by this though:

Maybe he feels the Submachine World is in Chaos due to the uneven Scale of Physical Structure inside the Void we know as the Copy.

About the Knights: That sounds really cool. I remember theorizing once that Liz may be the "Keeper of the Core," so perhaps, as you're theorizing, that role could have been passed down to her, even though it seems she never really had "permission" by the King to be there other than for research purposes as the Core was intended. Or perhaps Mateusz hid that detail from us (even though I, myself, don't find it likely that Liz is involved in this "Knights" business.)

How much do you want to Bet that the Answer to the Mystery of the Submachine has been behind our Backs the whole time because our Character never turn around to face whats behind him. Maybe The Exit to the Submachine was behind him in the Lighthouse where the Main Entrance next to the Cash Register on the Counter.

I'm wondering if there are more than on Defense System in Layer 1. Here is my reason why:

http://images.wikia.com/submachine/imag ... netmap.PNG

If the Submachine see Human as an infestation or at least the on who join Murtaugh and all of their present location is on this Map. See the Core or where the C is that labels the Core, now see the area around it where the possible Defense System we're in around the Core, there is another similar apparent Barrier just bellow it at 7 o'clock. Now if that is a Defense System then Who is in the Center of that, is it Mur? Plus why is there a Second Defense System in Layer 1? What is there or was once there that was important enough to have it own Defense System?