Pastelland Forum

No, the plot itself was satisfactory, it's just... what do we know now?

Shiva is a computer controlling what is referred to as "submachine".

Shiva was built by humans, and answered the ultimate question.

"Submachine" is, or is some part of, the multi-dimensional structure known to include:
Various sub-universes, also referred to as "submachine"s.
Seven layers of reality, each containing a version of every sub-universe.
The known, human universe.

Murtaugh did at some point acquire an arm of karma.

Murtaugh was, at some point, unable to focus himself into a single layer due to being stuck in the eighth.

Murtaugh was, at some point, a malicious agent in the multi-dimensional structure, creating destructive karma portals.

This period was ended by him Elizabeth meeting in the temple, on an intersection of all layers.

Murtaugh was, at some later point, able to focus himself onto a single layer, and a time traveler. This was with the assitance of Elizabeth.

Murtaugh was, at some point, a contact of Elizabeth when there was no indication either were significant or aware agents in the multi-dimensional structure.

Murtaugh did, at some point, invent repairing karma, which aided his restoring of the multi-dimensional structure.

Murtaugh was, at some point, a figure of some authority to inhabitants of the multi-dimensional structure.

Murtuagh did, at some point, appear to die to said inhabitants. Said inhabitants claim Shiva gave him knowledge of the future as he died.

Murtaugh did, at some point, see his grave during his time travels.

Murtaugh and Elizabeth were, at some point, outside but nearby the lighthouse, which apparently counts as "outside the submachine".

At this point in time, the lighthouse was in a desert with pyramids in the background.

Some time, somewhere, there was a dynasty under which trans-layer materials were discovered, and the "plan" was formed.

The plan refers to some aspect of how every layer seems to match each other.

At some point during Murtuagh's period of malice, he was chasing Elizabeth. The outcome of this was apparently different depending on the layer.

At some point, Elizabeth asked Murtaugh about this outcome.

There was, at some point, a civilization that build the so-called "garden" from submachine 10 and 7. This garden was in some respect part of the core, and the residence of Elizabeth at some point.


There's lots of details beyond this, but this is really all the concrete facts about the history and nature of the world we've traveled through I can recall. I couldn't even use the term "submachine" properly because between various claims in various directions, about "The Submachine", "The submachines" and "The Subnet", there's really no clarity as to what includes what, and where exactly the known universe is in all of this.

I really loved this moment in the game

The name of the author of the video sounds japanese when read straight, but if you read carefully, it isn't...

it's a music band lmao, the girl is singer Jonna Lee

Alright, come to think of it, we also know the root was man-made. That's about it, though.

It is very worthwhile to ask why the outside of lighthouse is outside of submachine. Especially, we can see the karma arm of Murtaugh, so we know that he can use karma powers outside. Then what makes a submachine a submachine, and what is the difference between the inside and outside?

Well, the karma arm has to do with layers, the only thing it does is "connect" two layers at a point. Mateusz said in a forum post:

Mateusz Skutnik wrote:1. no. reality is made of 7 different layers. subnet is a part of that reality.

This means that layers aren't unique to Submachine, and the karma arm should still work outside it. If I understood the notes in Sub10 correctly, Submachine used the Knot-like architecture persistent between layers (materials like brass mixed with a hint of karmic water - as we see e.g. in the Knot, or at 192 in SNEE), created by O'Toole and the 4th Dynasty, to persist between the already existent layers and become sentient with the help of S.H.I.V.A./The Computer, then started mutating and destroying the Plan. That's what the Submachine is, seemingly.

Alright, at least we have official precedent for "reality" referring to all of it, everywhere. Less of a mouthful than "multi-dimensional structure".

ENIHCAMBUS wrote:Well, they appear to be, but all of them appear off, that's odd...

Yes, it is actually bizarre to the point of it making no sense, like many things in this game actually. Subbots shouldn't logically be all off. Subbots have no reason to all be located in this single location either, like, why? This doesn't seem particularly central to the Subnet.

(Also, in the research area, there are those ladder-footprints from the mainframe on the wall. Why? They don't even go anywhere.)

Also, these Subbots appear to not have feets, so that doesn't explains the porpuse of the ladder. I think these are primitive versions of the Subbots used back then by the Fourth Dynasty, they got shut down because they are discontinued, posibly...