Pastelland Forum

Very plausible theory. However:

It is possible that the outer rim spread to other layers, likely including #2 (super advanced computer that was integrated into the defense systems) and #3 (at some point visited and damaged by Mur.) A couple of years after the creation of the Root, Mur discovered his karma arm, and began experimenting with it. However, his portals caused massive dimensional stability, eventually reducing most of layer 1 to a black void.

If 2 and 3 were even partially destroyed, why haven't we come across breaks in the walls, like we have in The Core? Unless you're referring to how the basement of Layer 2 seems more aged.

About most of Layer one being a "black void" - Besides the Edge, there really isn't evidence of this. However, from the secret note in Sub8 about what Mur's destroying, maybe Layer 1 is the "flawed copy" and destroying Layer 1 is his endgame.

If 2 and 3 were even partially destroyed, why haven't we come across breaks in the walls, like we have in The Core? Unless you're referring to how the basement of Layer 2 seems more aged.

I should clarify: Non-Submachine areas are reduced to nothing by all karma portals. Submachine areas are unaffected by portals placed elsewhere, damage to the walls like in sub 7 is an effect of nearby portals. Therefore, the places we visit in sub 8 are intact because Mur has not drawn portals there.

As for the black void, it appears in the background of nearly all areas that are "outside," so it is not unreasonable to think it would comprise most of the dimension.

Subbot #499 wrote:

If 2 and 3 were even partially destroyed, why haven't we come across breaks in the walls, like we have in The Core? Unless you're referring to how the basement of Layer 2 seems more aged.

I should clarify: Non-Submachine areas are reduced to nothing by all karma portals. Submachine areas are unaffected by portals placed elsewhere, damage to the walls like in sub 7 is an effect of nearby portals. Therefore, the places we visit in sub 8 are intact because Mur has not drawn portals there.

As for the black void, it appears in the background of nearly all areas that are "outside," so it is not unreasonable to think it would comprise most of the dimension.

Actually, the area where we get the Energy Trail in Layer Five is breaking apart, and I assume that's where Mur's Portal was supposed to leave us (but the Knot got in the way, I think.) Point is, regardless of whether or not it's a Submachine, Karma is destroying it, presumably either because it's not meant to be there or that Karma acts like a magnet and two "like" poles do not attract, thus ripping apart the Karma "glue" that's holding everything together.

As for the void, I suppose, since we don't know more about it, I'll let it go.

Rooster5man wrote:That is the logical timeline from what we have so far, I just have to question this:

Submachine is discovered do to some unknown process making Henry O'Toole's creations to enter it. Soon after this, people find themselves on different layers of the reality, which is confirmed by using their geotag system. An architectural construct is created to make use of the different layers, and this is named the plan. During this time technology develops exponentially allowing creation of portals and - I think we might propose - wisdom gems. After all, which other time fits an era of such technological prowess that such devices could be created.

Herein lies the problem. The Portals were designed for Sub-bots. With the thought that humans built the Sub-bots and made the Portals specifically for the Sub-bots [let me clarify: That's not your thought, but a path of logic], why would the explorers then reverse-engineer the Portals for use?

I referred to the portal doors found in the garden and sanctuary.

Rooster5man wrote:Could O'Toole's Architecture sparked the creation of the Layers and thus "The Plan?" "Freed from boundaries of material durability" - Sounds like creating new Dimensions, unless I'm wrong.

I suppose, although I interpreted that as a feature inherent to submachine environments.

I referred to the portal doors found in the garden and sanctuary.

Oh, I see! Sorry for the confusion. Thought you meant the actual Portals, as you can see.

I suppose, although I interpreted that as a feature inherent to submachine environments.

I suppose, but why would it? It could go either way really.

Well, in my opinion Elizabeth implied that the architecture mirrored the structure of the subnet, not the other way around. Thus the properties of the architecture were likely derived from qualities offered by the building medium.

Oh, I see, you're right on that part, I have no argument there. But the creation of the Layers is the puzzling part and what I was discussing. Are we to say the Plan always existed? Because it doesn't seem that way.

You're right about O'Toole's Architecture "mimicking the structure of the SubNet," but could O'Toole's Architecture spurred the creation of the Plan? We have no evidence for it, but the pamphlet in Sub7 - Is it saying that O'Toole's Architecture was new to the world of Architecture as a whole (being there was no "anti-structural architecture" before O'Toole, we can assume), or that his Architecture was new to the SubNet and spawned the Layers?

Rooster5man wrote:But the creation of the Layers is the puzzling part and what I was discussing. Are we to say the Plan always existed? Because it doesn't seem that way.

Why certainly, the Plan was the application of the discovery - or indeed creation, a topic of which we have little to no data. It seems as if the discovery of layers was either accidental or went unnoticed by humans, as evidenced by the note found in the third layer: the one about the geotags. I hypothesize that this discovery, and the fact people were on different layers, demanded that new areas would have to be created, lest people would fall into the void. This hypothesis also assumes that either some locations were in only some layers.

I hypothesize that this discovery, and the fact people were on different layers, demanded that new areas would have to be created, lest people would fall into the void. This hypothesis also assumes that either some locations were in only some layers.

Then there's this:

According to Mateusz Skutnik, every layer contains a different version of the Outer Rim and the Core, and all their locations. That is, each layer is in the basics identical to the others, but differs in the details and the temporal development (as we see in the ending of Submachine 8, history of each layer may differ)

http://submachine.wikia.com/wiki/The_Seven_Layers

However:

It seems as if the discovery of layers was either accidental or went unnoticed by humans, as evidenced by the note found in the third layer: the one about the geotags

That does seem like an ideal thought - that it mysteriously happened one day that the Layers formed (possibly like how the Outer Rim spurred and the mutations) - but I thought that it was the Explorers, being in groups and having found the Navigator (without knowing it's specific use), who discovered that you can be in the same "geotag," but not the same Layer.

So maybe the Plan is a mutation? It certainly didn't go un-noticed, we're not sure who exactly left behind that note, whether it was the explorers or the original inhabitants of that Layer (it can be assumed it's the Explorers though, with that kind of technology.)

having found the Navigator (without knowing it's specific use), who discovered that you can be in the same "geotag," but not the same Layer.

Possible, although that begs the question - where did the device come from. One could just say that layers always existed - or at least preceded all intelligent species - they are dimensions after all, not objects.

So maybe the Plan is a mutation?

Not under the definition I use. That definition being: "an interdimensional architectural construct that enables the traversing of different superpositioned dimensions".