Submachine 10 and beyond Theories and Suggestions

[ENIHCAMBUS]

in Sub_7 inside the Winter Palace, we see one Layer Observation Device showing only one layer, the first Layer that we may be in the whole time (the other Device shows Layer 1, 3, and 4 together)

Also confirmed by the ending of the same game.

They where 3 factors that affected the plan:
The Collapse, the corrotion and the expansion of the Outer Rim.

Collapse is what Mur caused by making portals and shattering the structure of the Subnet. Layer 3 is completely collapsed, and Layer 1 partially, mostly in its Core. Not sure how the collapse affected other layers, but we already found signs of it in Layer 5. At the end Mur stabilized and repaired all Layers except his home Layer 3, because it was severaly damaged by the collapsed, but its still posible its salvation.

Corrotion is something mostly unknown, some refers to it to the resin found in locations such as cat and kol. I think this so called corrotion is a side effect of the Knot, because it ties all the Layers in one place, including Layer 8. I don't know if this "timeless" layer is supposed to be tied to the main layers like that, so I think its sharing its own side effects, this "plot loop" is problably a side effect as well. I think we have to untie it to stop this, as well as saving the people in Layer 8.

Expansion of the Outer Rim is what was triggered when they passed the torch. Mateusz stated that when the Edge was created, the expansion came to an end. Not sure if the Plan was applied to all the rooms generated so far.

[The Abacus]

@WiQ: I think what would work better is that instead of there being 7 Murtaughs that are the same peson, there is 1/7 of a Murtaugh in each layer (hence, the "whole" Murtaugh being in the eighth layer).

- Why does this sociopath talk only to Elizabeth?

- She's the ony person he can see. Remember, we're one-dimensional. We're like a drawing on a piece of paper to him. A drawing that was erased, redrawn and erased again. Seven times over.

– – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Mateusz stated that when the Edge was created, the expansion came to an end.

He did?

when they passed the torch

(I would try to avoid using this phrase: it sounds as if you're saying there was a literal torch, while in the context in which it's used, it's probably a metaphor)

[Vortex]

@WiQ: I think what would work better is that instead of there being 7 Murtaughs that are the same peson, there is 1/7 of a Murtaugh in each layer (hence, the "whole" Murtaugh being in the eighth layer).

That's an interesting idea.

Mateusz stated that when the Edge was created, the expansion came to an end.

He did?

I don't remember that.

[Pulsaris]

If the collapse is repaired, then why are there black voids in sub4-7?

[Vortex]

Maybe it wasn't repaired, only controlled to a point it stabilized the layer.

[- ak -]

Because Murtaugh couldn't repair them fully like he couldn't repair the Third Layer back to its original state.

@WiQ: I think what would work better is that instead of there being 7 Murtaughs that are the same peson, there is 1/7 of a Murtaugh in each layer (hence, the "whole" Murtaugh being in the eighth layer).

That's an interesting idea.

Again, the problem is that Murtaugh only have Karma Power in his arm, not his entire body.

Though you and Worlds can argue that (in which I already specified earlier) Murtaugh was holding onto his Karma Arm that allow him to be in multiple Layers at the same time.

Then again, this bring up another problem: Murtaugh being in all seven Layers would attribute to him experiencing Enlightenment. If he's in all seven Layers at the same time, how did he not experience Enlightenment all this time? You can argue that it is related to his ability to focus in being in multiple Layers at the same time and it wasn't until his Enlightenment that he was able to figure out how.

Once again, this bring up another problem... if he's in all Layers at the same time, how did he disappeared during the Enlightenment? I brought up this question to Worlds, but I am starting to think there may be an answer to this question about how nobody could see him in any seven Layers during his Enlightenment...

He may be in the Eighth Layer during that time.

Think about it. He was guiding himself toward the Enlightenment.

[Subbot #499]

If the collapse is repaired, then why are there black voids in sub4-7?

I think that those black voids are a historical preservation of the events of Mur's era, much like the edge is as stated in the secret area.

[ThunderDasher]

Because Murtaugh couldn't repair them fully like he couldn't repair the Third Layer back to its original state.

@WiQ: I think what would work better is that instead of there being 7 Murtaughs that are the same peson, there is 1/7 of a Murtaugh in each layer (hence, the "whole" Murtaugh being in the eighth layer).

That's an interesting idea.

Again, the problem is that Murtaugh only have Karma Power in his arm, not his entire body.

Though you and Worlds can argue that (in which I already specified earlier) Murtaugh was holding onto his Karma Arm that allow him to be in multiple Layers at the same time.

Then again, this bring up another problem: Murtaugh being in all seven Layers would attribute to him experiencing Enlightenment. If he's in all seven Layers at the same time, how did he not experience Enlightenment all this time? You can argue that it is related to his ability to focus in being in multiple Layers at the same time and it wasn't until his Enlightenment that he was able to figure out how.

Once again, this bring up another problem... if he's in all Layers at the same time, how did he disappeared during the Enlightenment? I brought up this question to Worlds, but I am starting to think there may be an answer to this question about how nobody could see him in any seven Layers during his Enlightenment...

He may be in the Eighth Layer during that time.

Think about it. He was guiding himself toward the Enlightenment.

Hasn't Mateusz stated once that there is only one "copy" of Murtaugh for all seven Layers (Given that, at this time, Sub9 wasn't out yet)?

I believe this was before even Sub8, when we first saw those schemes about Layers back in Sub7... I'm absolutely sure I've read about this one on the Wikia.

[- ak -]

Hasn't Mateusz stated once that there is only one "copy" of Murtaugh for all seven Layers (Given that, at this time, Sub9 wasn't out yet)?

I believe this was before even Sub8, when we first saw those schemes about Layers back in Sub7... I'm absolutely sure I've read about this one on the Wikia.

Yes, Mateusz did say that there's only one Murtaugh. Then Worlds brought up an interesting question that there could be "copy" of him or at least "part" of him in the other Layers. Or rather, splitting Murtaugh across all seven Layers. Similar way to how Murtaugh was able to see his Karma Arm in all seven Layers, this time with his whole body.

I argued against this idea because of what Mateusz said before Sub_8 was released AND the fact that this works against what was given in Sub_9.

My question for both theories of "Only One Murtaugh" and "Multiple Parts of Murtaugh" is that how we were not able to see Murtaugh in any seven Layers when he experienced Enlightenment?

He may be in the Eighth Layer during that time.

Think about it. He was guiding himself toward the Enlightenment because he wanted to see entirety of the Plan. Even in Eighth Layer, you can still see the other Layers. Murtaugh could have used the Eighth Layer to guide himself to his own Enlightenment.

[WorldisQuiet5256]

If the collapse is repaired, then why are there black voids in sub4-7?

Not all of it is repaired. Murtuagh never got around to fixing Layer 3, where he is originally from.

Though you and Worlds can argue that (in which I already specified earlier) Murtaugh was holding onto his Karma Arm that allow him to be in multiple Layers at the same time.

Again, I don't see that being the case:
This is inside a Karma Portal


Such as an example being from Submachine 7, when we first use them, we only use them when there is an obstacle in the way. Like the lock door.

But if there were a fraction of himself in all 7 layers, it allowed him to get around obstacle in the way. He just had to focus himself in a neighboring layer with a physical location where the obstacle is not in another layer. Like we had to do in order to progress in Submachine 8 with the navigator.

Yes, Mateusz did say that there's only one Murtaugh. Then Worlds brought up an interesting question that there could be "copy" of him or at least "part" of him in the other Layers.

It was actually mention in Submachine 8, in a secret Note.

- Doesn't he understand that his karma portals are shattering this dimension?

- This dimension? You mean the third one? You know that's not even the original dimension, right? What do you think is more important - the origin or the flawed copy?

Yes that person is right, all of the Layer/Dimension are not the original, but Murtuagh was originally from the 3rd layer, was he not? But I think he/she mean when he/she says "What more important - The original or the flawed copy?" I think he/she was talking about Murtaugh, not the Layers. We just assumed that is what he/she meant until Submachine 9 came out and showed us that Murtuagh was originally from the 3rd Layer.