Submachine 10 and beyond Theories and Suggestions

[WorldisQuiet5256]

As well as Sir Henry O'Toole.
Elizabeth was given the same power as Murtuagh.
She was orginally from Layer 2

The Same goes for Sir Henry O'Toole.
He was also given the same power as Murtuagh and Elizabeth.
But he was originally from Layer 1.

The only reason I assume Sir Henry O'Toole has this power, cause he is the only other character/ human in the series who we know his name. But I also think this because he was the first to come up with Anti-Structure Architecture. But he was only able to do this because he could see all of the other layers at once.

Plus because of this note from Submachine 7, which is the only other game after Submachine 2 to mention Sir Henry O'Toole again.

Once there was a man who said he knew what was happening after Murtaugh left.

Since then that man left us as well.

[Vortex]

If we do meet someone in Sub10, be it in spirit form or whatever, it would be the first time in the entire series. So far we've only found notes and a computer conversation that was even probably recorded beforehand.

[WorldisQuiet5256]

So far we've only found notes and a computer conversation that was even probably recorded beforehand.

I don't find them to be planted evident, just actual documentation from a point in history.

[Vortex]

Yes, sorry, I expressed myself wrong.

[- ak -]

Its just their 7 main layer counterparts.

Mateusz said that there is (was?) only one Murtaugh, Elizabeth and most likely every other human being (and living thing?). The seven layers are not strictly parallel dimensions: they do unite at the knot, but are separate otherwise.

Yes there is only One Elizabeth and Murtuagh.
And again, you misunderstood what I mean by "Counterparts".

There is only one Murtuagh and Elizabeth, but the Power Murtaugh obtained.
There are actually 7 or 8 Murtuaghs.

Cause how Murtuagh was given his powers was Shiva made duplicates of him. One in each layer.
The same applies to any of us having a counterpart version of ourselves in a parallel universe.

Interesting theory, but... I just can't see this as a possibility. You did pointed out that there's only one Murtaugh and Elizabeth, but I can't see them having additional duplicates as result of being "granted" power by Shiva. There's one note in Sub_8's secret hub that could goes against this line of thinking.

One of notes in Sub_8 specified that Murtaugh was able to exist in multiple Layers at once. If there were duplicates when he exist in multiple Layers, there would be an event of self-collapse because whenever there are matters in exact same locations within the two Layers, a collapse will follows. This is supported by Elizabeth's note in Sub_7 about why certain bits and pieces got left behind because there were no matters to collide into.

The easier solution for Murtaugh being in multiple Layers at once is that he was holding onto his Karma powers within his arms, which allow him to see and be in many Layers. It wasn't until the Enlightenment when he could exists at all seven Layers and see the entire Plan of Submachine.

There's no duplicates, just one body existing in all Layers.

But I do like the idea of possibly meeting Murtaugh, perhaps through time or through spirit.

[WorldisQuiet5256]

Interesting theory, but... I just can't see this as a possibility. You did pointed out that there's only one Murtaugh and Elizabeth, but I can't see them having additional duplicates as result of being "granted" power by Shiva. There's one note in Sub_8's secret hub that could goes against this line of thinking.

One of notes in Sub_8 specified that Murtaugh was able to exist in multiple Layers at once.

There's no duplicates, just one body existing in all Layers.

Again you are mistaken again!
Yes Murtuagh was in all of the Layers at once, but it was only until the Murtuagh in Layer 3, had his mind controlling not just his body in layer 3, but his counterpart body in the other layers as well. It was only until after they where in the same space at the same time.

There left arms all being in the same exact waterfall, at the same exact point in time.

Nobody could predict that the enlightenment would cause such destruction. Even Murtaugh himself didn't know what happened. He was already looking at all layers at once. He was already removed from one-dimensionality.

To be back in only one layer, Murtaugh had to lose his focus. After he focused his mind back on the structure of the plan,

[- ak -]

That's a good point, though you would have to consider that maybe Murtaugh could see his left arm in all seven Layers because he's the only one who can see it happening.

This may be a stretch I admit, but nobody else could see his arm in the other Layers. If they could, then there would exists a possibility that alternate Murtaugh could also be in other Layers at the exact time and location of Murtaugh in the third Layer. Also, remember that only his arm have Karma power, not his entire body. As I explained just before, he could held onto his arm that allow him to be in multiple Layers at once.

You also need to consider that in Sub_9, the note in Murtaugh's Tomb specifically said that Murtaugh has disappeared during his Enlightenment as if Rapture has happened, which would definitely tied in nicely with one body existing in all Layers claim that I made.

So... how would you explain the disappearance of Murtaugh's duplicates during his Enlightenment as noted in Sub_9?

[WorldisQuiet5256]

This:

They did not even have a philosophical device to comprehend the true nature of his disappearance.

What layer is the Lab in?

[ENIHCAMBUS]

We don't know.

[- ak -]

This:

They did not even have a philosophical device to comprehend the true nature of his disappearance.

What layer is the Lab in?

The popular answer around the forum would be Layer 1 since it is possible that we played Sub_1 to 7 in Layer 1 with all of these Black Void in the background. This is supported by two elements:

1)
in Sub_7 inside the Winter Palace, we see one Layer Observation Device showing only one layer, the first Layer that we may be in the whole time (the other Device shows Layer 1, 3, and 4 together).

2)
in Sub_8, the first Layer indeed have the Black Void (though the third Layer also have the Black Void, the indication of Collapse).

Hope that helps.